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The Irrefutable Sabbath Facts
- Thread starter The Biblicist
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Better refutation of your <basis>, <principle>, <application> <argument> whatever, than your own, isn't possible.
Forget 'meaning' in any SUPPOSED <arbitrary> act in YOUR imagination of GOD'S!
And I told you, using the word which per se simply means ‘rest-day’, is another matter than the same word circumscribed in a whole CONTEXT all its own OF LAW.
You obviously have no idea or understanding or knowledge about the BASIC principle of text interpretation or exegesis of CONTEXT.
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I said it before; I still say it, that Biblicist is our beloved Doctor Walter of old ...
Nice try but no prize! Just asserting something to be false does not make it false. The proof is Leviticus 23 that the Sabbath command is indeed a BROADER PRINCIPLE that has various APPLICATIONS - this is undeniable unless you are going to prosecute God for misapplying Sabbath Law in Leviticus 23, 25; Psal 118:24/Acts 4:10 etc.
"In the seventh year the year shall be a rest-year ..." : from no 'Commandment' but from nature -- derived from nature's "years" : "BESIDE / APART FROM / IN DISTINCTION TO, MY, Sabbaths..." Leviticus 23:3 and 38 : "the day (in the Hebrew) The Seventh Day Rest-DAY // Sabbath of the LORD GOD."
That is how it stands, WRITTEN -- your wisdom 'besides', old chap!
Get the meaning of the word "besides" in Leviticus 23:38?
That now is 'BESIDES' the hundred and one other distinctions found throughout the whole Bible.
You get the distinction between 'the rest-day" of the passover and "the day The Seventh Day-REST-DAY // The Seventh Day-SABBATH OF THE LORD GOD"?
You say, no?
Well I say, we don't believe you!
That is how it stands, WRITTEN -- your wisdom 'besides', old chap!
Get the meaning of the word "besides" in Leviticus 23:38?
That now is 'BESIDES' the hundred and one other distinctions found throughout the whole Bible.
You get the distinction between 'the rest-day" of the passover and "the day The Seventh Day-REST-DAY // The Seventh Day-SABBATH OF THE LORD GOD"?
You say, no?
Well I say, we don't believe you!
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Why, would you say, under the name of 'Biblicist', it's "pattern of days", when under the name of Dr Walter it was "set of days" except for the 'Biblicist' not to be recognised for 'Dr Walter'?
... that is just one link in the DNA ribbon.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You gave the answer - you could not click on the link for some reason and you failed to find even one other document by that name other than version 1 and version 2 that I pointed you to.
Did you try going here - http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm and then clicking on section 19:
Where we just "not supposed to notice" that you are having problems in that regard??
(It does not get any easier than this)
in Christ,
Bob
Did you try going here - http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm and then clicking on section 19:
Where we just "not supposed to notice" that you are having problems in that regard??
(It does not get any easier than this)
in Christ,
Bob
He did not say SINGULAR "Sabbath" as in the fourth commandment but PLURAL "Sabbaths" as IN ADDITION TO all the sabbaths previously in the chapter there are also these that follow. Sorry old chap but put your glasses on when you read and you can see better.
Yes, in Leviticus where "MY Sabbaths" are compared with sundry other 'sabbaths', it is the Plural, obviously. As I quoted it, "... from no 'Commandment' but from nature -- derived from nature's "years" : "BESIDE / APART FROM / IN DISTINCTION TO, MY, Sabbaths..." Leviticus 23:3 and 38".
"... : "the day (in the Hebrew a Seventh Day Rest-DAY // Sabbath of the LORD GOD" obviously no longer is my quote from Leviticus 23:3 and 38, but is my quote from i.a. the Fourth Commandment. You should have been able to notice that.
In any case, in the Hebrew the Plural or the Singular depends on the Context because its the same word, 'shabbath' whether Singular or Plural.
Therefore "My Sabbaths" in Leviticus 23:3 and 38 are the equivalent of “My Sabbaths” in Exodus 31:13, “VERILY MY Sabbaths”—the real ONE, the Fourth Commandment “Sabbath”, singular AND plural as in Exodus 20:10, “the day (Singular) The Sabbath=Sabbaths=every and all and ONLY “day: The Seventh Day Sabbath=Sabbaths, OF THE LORD GOD” … which is or are “SIGN”— a single, particular, “day-sign”, the “sign” of “the day The Seventh Day Sabbath=Sabbaths OF THE LORD GOD.”
All through Leviticus the difference and contrast between God’s (Personal) “Sabbath=Sabbaths” and “the sabbath of the land” or “her” – Israel’s “sabbaths-in-particular” – are obvious and easily noticed.
Biblicist, don’t be ridiculous again!
Making things up as you go along! My interpretation is the natural interpretation of that text because there are plural sabbaths both before and afterwards.
I reject your interpretations because they are forced and in direct contradiction to the facts.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
A few irrefutable facts.
1. The "Baptist Confession of Faith" admits that the Sabbath was given to mankind in Gen 2:3 and still applies to the saints today. (Biblicist at times appear to agree with them on that).
2. There is no text in all of scripture saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day".
3. There is no text in all of scripture saying "Week day 1 is the new 7th day of the fourth commandment".
4. There is no text in all of scripture saying that "week day 1" is the new weekly Sabbath.
5. When Biblicist looks for a source that WILL say these things - he finds it only in extra-biblical sources writing AFTER the first century.
Beyond all doubt.
in Christ,
Bob
1. The "Baptist Confession of Faith" admits that the Sabbath was given to mankind in Gen 2:3 and still applies to the saints today. (Biblicist at times appear to agree with them on that).
2. There is no text in all of scripture saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day".
3. There is no text in all of scripture saying "Week day 1 is the new 7th day of the fourth commandment".
4. There is no text in all of scripture saying that "week day 1" is the new weekly Sabbath.
5. When Biblicist looks for a source that WILL say these things - he finds it only in extra-biblical sources writing AFTER the first century.
Beyond all doubt.
in Christ,
Bob
Ok!
There is no text that says that verbatim just as there is no record of the fourth commandment that ever says verbatim "of the week."
However, there are texts that use words that demand the first day of the week is the new Sabbath day - Mk. 16:9
There are scriptures that demand the resurrection day is to be observed in a special way (Psa. 118:24 "made" "rejoice and be glad IN IT") as Psa. 118:20-24 is Messianic prophecy directly applied to the resurrection of Christ (Acts 4:10-11). There are scriptures that necessarily infer that the finished work of Christ is commemorated exactly as the finished work of creation by God through a Sabbath observance (Heb. 4:9-10). There is language used only in the New Testament for things belonging to Jesus Christ "The Lord's" (1) His supper - 1 Cor. 11:20; (2) His day - Rev. 1:10 and there is abundant and overwhelming evidence from the first century Ignatius to Constantine the Great that the words "the Lord's Day" are desciptive of the resurrection day additional identified as the "eighth day" and "the first day of the week' and "sunday." There is direct evidence that the churches referred to "the first day of the week' in a special way and in regard to their worship services (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2).
There is in fact plenty of scripture to show that the sabbath law only demands six preceding working days and the seventh is the sabbath in that pattern of seven and this sabbath law is applied to all different kinds of days "of the week" in Leviticus 23 and to the first day of the week in the New Testament according to the proof just cited above.
Indeed, notice that God did not select SABBATH dates that were consistent with the seventh day "of the week" idea as in 7, 14, 21, 28 but dates that were consistent with the first day "of the week" application as 1, 8, 15, 22, 50, in Leviticus 23.
Mark 16:9 "proto" first in a new series "sabbatou" the regular term used for the fourth commandment whereas the regular term used for the first day of the week is the plural "sabbaton"
Readers please note that neither Bob or GE provide any responses to the substantial evidences I present but EMPTY UNSUSTAINED DENIALS, RIDICULE and assertions
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BobRyan
2. There is no text in all of scripture saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day".
Wrong again except for your confession that "There is no text that says that verbatim "
Mark 16:9 does not say "the first day of the week is the new Sabbath day"
So - you quote "you" instead of the actual text.
Interesting that you admit you have not text saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"
Then as if to "solve" that problem you have - you go to Mark 16:9 and then add another example of you quoting "you" by saying that from Mark 16:9 we get "the first day of the week is the new Sabbath day"
Which we ALL know is not to be found there either.
How in the world is that supposed to work for you?? ever?
You conclude with
Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
in Christ,
Bob
2. There is no text in all of scripture saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day".
Wrong again except for your confession that "There is no text that says that verbatim "
Mark 16:9 does not say "the first day of the week is the new Sabbath day"
So - you quote "you" instead of the actual text.
Interesting that you admit you have not text saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"
Then as if to "solve" that problem you have - you go to Mark 16:9 and then add another example of you quoting "you" by saying that from Mark 16:9 we get "the first day of the week is the new Sabbath day"
Which we ALL know is not to be found there either.
How in the world is that supposed to work for you?? ever?
You conclude with
As if that hollow accusation provides the substance your argument is lacking from an actual text of scripture.
Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Here we have more Biblicist --
[FONT="]The Biblicist;2008264
5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.
6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.
7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)
[/FONT]
The Biblicist;2008264
[FONT="]http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2008264&postcount=108
[/FONT]
========================== more Biblicist
7. It is not wrong for the Sabbath to be applied to the seventh day "of the week" but it is wrong to demand it is restricted to such as that restriction has no Biblical basis and contradicts God's own use and application of the Sabbath Law.
[FONT="]8. It is now wrong to apply it to the seventh day "of the week" as it has been applied by God to the first day "of the week" first by type in the Messianic feasts of Lev. 23 and Lev. 25 and by Messianic prophecy (Psa. 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; heb. 4:2-11) and by Messianic example (Jn. 20; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Rev. 1:10) and by historic custom consistenly after the aposolic age right up to BEFORE Constantine.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2006881&postcount=75 [/FONT]
==========================
[FONT="]Originally Posted by The Biblicist
[/FONT][FONT="]
In regard to a consistent weekly application I believe Bob is right at least from the giving of the ten commandments to the Jews to the resurrection of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2011386#post2011386 [/FONT]
[FONT="]The Biblicist;2008264
5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.
6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.
7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)
[/FONT]
The Biblicist;2008264
[FONT="]http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2008264&postcount=108
[/FONT]
========================== more Biblicist
7. It is not wrong for the Sabbath to be applied to the seventh day "of the week" but it is wrong to demand it is restricted to such as that restriction has no Biblical basis and contradicts God's own use and application of the Sabbath Law.
[FONT="]8. It is now wrong to apply it to the seventh day "of the week" as it has been applied by God to the first day "of the week" first by type in the Messianic feasts of Lev. 23 and Lev. 25 and by Messianic prophecy (Psa. 118:20-24 with Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; heb. 4:2-11) and by Messianic example (Jn. 20; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Rev. 1:10) and by historic custom consistenly after the aposolic age right up to BEFORE Constantine.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2006881&postcount=75 [/FONT]
==========================
[FONT="]Originally Posted by The Biblicist
[/FONT][FONT="]
In regard to a consistent weekly application I believe Bob is right at least from the giving of the ten commandments to the Jews to the resurrection of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT="]http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2011386#post2011386 [/FONT]
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Yes, I own up to it all because the fourth commandment principle is inclusive of all those various applications!!!! However, your SDA intepretation contradicts and condemns God's own BROADER applications.
The NT Apsotles of Lord Jesus quoted/referred to 9 Commandments morally in effect for NT saints, where did ANY of them say Sabbath of Isreal still binding upon Church though?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
hint - there is NO QJOTE of the text of the 3rd commandment - not to take God's name in vain.
But the text of the 4th commandment IS quoted from several times in the NT - including Heb 4, and Rev 14:7.
The 4th commandment is Explicitly affirmed by the Baptist Confession of Faith as still applicable to the saints today..
So also do Andy Stanley, D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon specifically admit that the 4th commandment is still applicable to Christians today.
They get this simple Bible truth.
others could grasp it as well if they chose to.
in Christ,
Bob
But the text of the 4th commandment IS quoted from several times in the NT - including Heb 4, and Rev 14:7.
The 4th commandment is Explicitly affirmed by the Baptist Confession of Faith as still applicable to the saints today..
So also do Andy Stanley, D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon specifically admit that the 4th commandment is still applicable to Christians today.
They get this simple Bible truth.
others could grasp it as well if they chose to.
in Christ,
Bob
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