The Just shall live by Faith !

[The Biblicist]

Typical. Requires others to answer him, but won't answer them.

He doesn't dare answer those questions as it will clearly expose his interpretation of romans 1:16-17 as manifestly false!

 

[DHK]

Read my previous post and this also. Abraham believed God because God called him. Abraham was a sheep of God. God imputed the righteousness of God by the faith that would be manifested when the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world became obedient unto death even the death of the cross.

Abraham believed God, because he made that choice to believe God. This is not about election. It is about faith.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
How did it become manifested?
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Pick and choose your translation. You don't understand what the verse is saying there, so let me use a more modern translation to help your understanding:

Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
--Christ does not need faith. That is absurd. We need to put our faith in Christ, as the verse teaches. To infer that Christ needs faith is to infer that Christ needs to be saved.

It became manifested when Jesus the Christ died.-----Compare.

Gal. 3:23 But before the faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. (The Faith had yet to be revealed.) 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster unto Christ, (Were kept under the law, Even Jesus came under the law, see Gal4:4 Until Jesus was obedient unto death.) that we might be justified by faith. (Of Jesus then we would no longer be under the law our schoolmaster but under grace.)

Of course. It is we that are justified by faith, and by faith alone.

25 But after that the faith is come, (After Jesus was obedient unto death, shed his blood.) we are no longer under a schoolmaster. By grace, Gal. 1:1 God the Father raised Jesus the Son from the dead, Acts 2:33 gave Jesus the promise of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:6

You are stringing a bunch of verses here together without context so they don't make sense. Jesus was obedient to death. He submitted himself to his father while on earth.
The law is our schoolmaster! It shows us our sinfulness and why we need a Savior.
--And again you are misinterpreting Scripture.
Christ ascended up to heaven. He was exalted. Seated at the right hand of the Father. Rightfully restored to the same position he had before he came to earth. This is what the verse is describing. And then, according to his promise in Acts 1:8 he sent to them the Holy Spirit. It was a promise he gave in the Apostles and in the first chapter of Acts. Christ sent the Holy Spirit after he ascended into heaven, according to his promise. He is called the Comforter.

Which he God the Father then shed abundantly on us through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The faith of Jesus shown to you from the word of God above.

The faith of Jesus is the Bible. We contend for "the faith," given to us by the Lord. The verse referred to is "faith in Jesus."
Don't destroy the Word of God.

When this Spirit was shed on you it was the Romans 8:15,16 Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Yes it does.

Gal. 3:26 YLT for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, (The Holy Spirit puts us in Christ and also Christ in us.) 27 for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ;29 and if ye [are] of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise -- heirs.

You will inherit whatever it has been or will be, that Christ and Abraham inherit.[/QUOTE]
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
By Faith, not "the" faith.
Our inheritance is based on faith.

 

[percho]

Abraham believed God, because he made that choice to believe God. This is not about election. It is about faith.

Pick and choose your translation. You don't understand what the verse is saying there, so let me use a more modern translation to help your understanding:

Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
--Christ does not need faith. That is absurd. We need to put our faith in Christ, as the verse teaches. To infer that Christ needs faith is to infer that Christ needs to be saved.

Of course. It is we that are justified by faith, and by faith alone.

You are stringing a bunch of verses here together without context so they don't make sense. Jesus was obedient to death. He submitted himself to his father while on earth.
The law is our schoolmaster! It shows us our sinfulness and why we need a Savior.
--And again you are misinterpreting Scripture.
Christ ascended up to heaven. He was exalted. Seated at the right hand of the Father. Rightfully restored to the same position he had before he came to earth. This is what the verse is describing. And then, according to his promise in Acts 1:8 he sent to them the Holy Spirit. It was a promise he gave in the Apostles and in the first chapter of Acts. Christ sent the Holy Spirit after he ascended into heaven, according to his promise. He is called the Comforter.

The faith of Jesus is the Bible. We contend for "the faith," given to us by the Lord. The verse referred to is "faith in Jesus."
Don't destroy the Word of God.

Yes it does.

Gal. 3:26 YLT for ye are all sons of God through the faith in Christ Jesus, (The Holy Spirit puts us in Christ and also Christ in us.) 27 for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ;29 and if ye [are] of Christ then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise -- heirs.

You will inherit whatever it has been or will be, that Christ and Abraham inherit.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
By Faith, not "the" faith.
Our inheritance is based on faith.[/QUOTE]


Romans 5:8,9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup the new testament (covenant) in my blood, which is shed for you.

Is it the blood shed of this new covenant that justifies the "us" and "you" who were sinners under the old covenant?

Gal. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, (by being under the law of the old covenant) -----Balance later.

Hebrews 8:7-12 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

When God made the old covenant with the people here is what they said, "All that the LORD has said we will do".

Do you see one word in the new covenant above or in Jeremiah or elsewhere where the people have to do or believe anything.

And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Because of being called by God, and receiving and being born of the Holy Spirit they will be believers.

The rest of Gal. 3:22 that the promise (of the Holy Spirit) by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,

Why did Jesus need to be given the Holy Spirit by the Father?
Why was Jesus given the Holy Spirit by the Father?
What enabled you to be given the Holy Spirit?

 

[savedbymercy]

He doesn't dare answer those questions as it will clearly expose his interpretation of romans 1:16-17 as manifestly false!

Wrong, those questions are nothing but a wild goose chase, answering them will not change the fact, that the Just shall live by Faith !

Everyone christ died for is made Just, or Justified soley by His Death, His Obedience Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or Just.

Now, the simple Truth of scripture is that the Just SHALL Live by Faith ! It is a future tense Promise !

Now running around answering all your Christ denying questions of unbelief is not going to change it one iota !

 

[The Biblicist]

Wrong, those questions are nothing but a wild goose chase, answering them will not change the fact, that the Just shall live by Faith !

Everyone christ died for is made Just, or Justified soley by His Death, His Obedience Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or Just.

Now, the simple Truth of scripture is that the Just SHALL Live by Faith ! It is a future tense Promise !

Now running around answering all your Christ denying questions of unbelief is not going to change it one iota !

It is obvious that truth is something you hate and the scriptures mean nothing to you except as a means to propagate your false agenda. You fear those questions because they would reveal exactly who you are - a perverter of God's Word.

 

[DHK]

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
By Faith, not "the" faith.
Our inheritance is based on faith.

The rest of Gal. 3:22 that the promise (of the Holy Spirit) by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

You are wrong here.
Other translations say "by faith in Jesus."
Look at what Jamieson Faucett and Brown say:

by faith of Jesus Christ--that is which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Do some more digging before you blithely rest your theology simply on a translation of a phrase of a verse.

Our salvation is by faith IN Christ. If Christ needed faith, then he would need to be saved, wouldn't he? Your position is absurd.

 

[savedbymercy]

It is obvious that truth is something you hate and the scriptures mean nothing to you except as a means to propagate your false agenda. You fear those questions because they would reveal exactly who you are - a perverter of God's Word.

Everyone christ died for is made Just, or Justified soley by His Death, His Obedience Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or Just.

Now, the simple Truth of scripture is that the Just SHALL Live by Faith ! It is a future tense Promise !

 

[The Biblicist]

Everyone christ died for is made Just, or Justified soley by His Death, His Obedience Rom 5:19

by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous or Just.

Now, the simple Truth of scripture is that the Just SHALL Live by Faith ! It is a future tense Promise !

Note the language "SHALL" be not "HAS BEEN"!

 

[savedbymercy]

Note the language "SHALL" be not "HAS BEEN"!

Yes it says Shall, which is a promise, which is conditioned only on the Obedience of Christ ! The Obedience of One.

The word made is the greek word kathistēmi and means:

to set one over a thing (in charge of it)

b) to appoint one to administer an office

c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

e) to conduct or bring to a certain place

f) to show or exhibit one's self

So they shall be declared Righteous, or shown to be Righteous. Its Like when Abel offered up the sacrifice, it gave testimony or declared or showed him to be Righteous Heb 11:4

4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous

So that takes care of that.

I never denied that the elect never were sinners, for being a sinner does not mean they are not Justified ! However they are first manifested or shown to be sinners, prior to being shown to be Righteous. Their sinner ship is merely experimental, whereas their being made Righteous is Legal.

But the Key to understanding this verse is that their being made Righteous in any regard, is solely by the Obedience of ONE, not Christ's Obedience and theirs, but sole Christ's One obedience , that was the Cross !

 

[The Biblicist]

Yes it says Shall, which is a promise, which is conditioned only on the Obedience of Christ ! The Obedience of One.

Promise of WHAT? REad the text! It is the promise that they SHALL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS! It is not an already FULFILLED promise but one to be fullfilled in the FUTURE! "SHALL" not "HAS BEEN." Go back to school and learn basic English.

He is not saying they have already been made righteous as your false doctrine teaches but rather this is the promise that they "SHALL" be made righteous.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Promise of WHAT?

Shall be made Righteous ! I just explained it to you ! In fact, it is the same thing as the title of the Thread is, The Just shall live by Faith. One Christ died for and Justified is born Living by Faith, though they are Justified by Christ's Death, but sooner or later when they receive their New Birth, and the Gospel reveals to them their Righteousness, then they shall begin to live by Faith ! They by Faith embrace the Righteousness of Christ that has been imputed to their Charge, and was made known to them through the Gospel. For its revealed from Faith to Faith !

This shows me that you know absolutely NOTHING about Bible Salvation. Do you suppose to be some kind of preacher ? The biblicist, please ! I would not be caught dead in any church you teach in !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib


The biblicist, please ! I would not be caught dead in any church you teach in !

Thank God!

Now, as far as your explanation, it is just like all your explanations! Perversion of the scriptures, rash handling of scriptures, pitting scriptures against scriptures, ignoring what the text actually says and reading into it what you want it to say. That is your MO.

Now, "SHALL BE" does not mean "HAVE BEEN"! If the elect HAVE BEEN justified before the world began or on the cross of Christ he would have said


"by the obedience of one many HAVE BEEN made righteous"

That is how you want to intepret it. You take your rash hands and pervert the scriptures to please your own ungodly belly (desires).

Look at verse 17 and note the word "receive"! They "SHALL BE" made righteous when they "RECEIVE" it and not until they "RECEIVE" it by faith.

 

[percho]

Promise of WHAT? REad the text! It is the promise that they SHALL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS! It is not an already FULFILLED promise but one to be fullfilled in the FUTURE! "SHALL" not "HAS BEEN." Go back to school and learn basic English.

He is not saying they have already been made righteous as your false doctrine teaches but rather this is the promise that they "SHALL" be made righteous.

Does that not mean from the moment of the obedience, many shall be made righteous? Future from the obedience unto death many shall be made righteous?

Will the many be righteous from that moment by the works of the law? No.
Isn't that the moment spoken of in Gal 3:25 when they are removed from being under the law, the schoolmaster?
Isn't that the moment spoken of as, "after the faith is come"?
Just prior to this moment in Verses 23,24 wasn't all considered under the law, the schoolmaster? Wasn't this before the faith came?

Just what do you think was the faith that took place at this moment?

Eight questions?

BTW I wouldn't mind going to church with you at all. I would love to go to church with you for I would be willing to say that 99.9% of my friends I attend church with now believe as you do.
You know what old J Vernon would say about that, "Well is they want to be wrong that's OK."

I am not going to get bent out of shape one way or the other. I"m going to put my life in the hands of God.

 

[savedbymercy]

perc

Does that not mean from the moment of the obedience, many shall be made righteous?

No, because that would be by the Obedience of Two, not One. Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[savedbymercy]

the

Now, "SHALL BE" does not mean "HAVE BEEN"!

Yes it does. I just explained it to you. If one is showed to be Righteous, then they were Righteous before God before it was shown to be !

The word made is kathistēmi


And means:

to declare, show to be

 

[The Biblicist]

Does that not mean from the moment of the obedience, many shall be made righteous? Future from the obedience unto death many shall be made righteous?

Romans 3:24-5:1 has been talking about IMPUTED not imparted righteousness. Romans 5:2 asserts our LEGAL STANDING due to this IMPUTED righteousness is secure and Romans 5:3-20 provides a logical argument why this LEGAL STANDING cannot be overthrown.

1. Tribulation does not overthrow it but makes it more firm - vv. 3-5
2. God's unconditional love will not allow it to be overthrown - vv. 6-9
3. The Representative Work of One man will not allow it to be overthrown - vv. 10-20

Verse 17 and verse 19 prove that what Christ did was for His elect and they "shall be" made righteous by imputation when they "receive" it (v. 17) through faith as just previously described in great detail in Romans 3:24-5:1.

Will the many be righteous from that moment by the works of the law? No.
Isn't that the moment spoken of in Gal 3:25 when they are removed from being under the law, the schoolmaster?
Isn't that the moment spoken of as, "after the faith is come"?
Just prior to this moment in Verses 23,24 wasn't all considered under the law, the schoolmaster? Wasn't this before the faith came?

Precisely! You were made righteous by IMPUTATION at the point of faith in the gospel which is a work of God (Jn. 6:44-45; 64-65).

Just what do you think was the faith that took place at this moment?

Jesus is the "author" of our faith in Him (Heb. 12:2) and He authors it by a creative act whereby we are given a NEW heart - a believing heart. This creative act is likened unto Genesis 1:3 when God spoke light into existence by His Word (2 Cor. 4:6). Faith is produced by the "command" of God or the "word" (Gr. Rhema) of God (Rom. 10:13).

There is no such thing as a seeing heart that is not seeing or a hearing ear that is not hearing any more than there is such a thing as an unregenerated beleiver or regenerated unbeliever. Regeneration and conversion are simply two sides of the same coin and where there is one there is the other.

BTW I wouldn't mind going to church with you at all. I would love to go to church with you for I would be willing to say that 99.9% of my friends I attend church with now believe as you do.
You know what old J Vernon would say about that, "Well is they want to be wrong that's OK."

I am not going to get bent out of shape one way or the other. I"m going to put my life in the hands of God.

I will take that as a compliment:thumbsup:

 

[The Biblicist]

Romans 3:24-5:1 has been talking about IMPUTED not imparted righteousness. Romans 5:2 asserts our LEGAL STANDING due to this IMPUTED righteousness is secure and Romans 5:3-20 provides a logical argument why this LEGAL STANDING cannot be overthrown.

1. Tribulation does not overthrow it but makes it more firm - vv. 3-5
2. God's unconditional love will not allow it to be overthrown - vv. 6-9
3. The Representative Work of One man will not allow it to be overthrown - vv. 10-20

Verse 17 and verse 19 prove that what Christ did was for His elect and they "shall be" made righteous by imputation when they "receive" it (v. 17) through faith as just previously described in great detail in Romans 3:24-5:1.



Precisely! You were made righteous by IMPUTATION at the point of faith in the gospel which is a work of God (Jn. 6:44-45; 64-65).



Jesus is the "author" of our faith in Him (Heb. 12:2) and He authors it by a creative act whereby we are given a NEW heart - a believing heart. This creative act is likened unto Genesis 1:3 when God spoke light into existence by His Word (2 Cor. 4:6). Faith is produced by the "command" of God or the "word" (Gr. Rhema) of God (Rom. 10:13).

There is no such thing as a seeing heart that is not seeing or a hearing ear that is not hearing any more than there is such a thing as an unregenerated beleiver or regenerated unbeliever. Regeneration and conversion are simply two sides of the same coin and where there is one there is the other.




I will take that as a compliment:thumbsup:

1 Pet. 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

If faith is a work then why must it be "obtained"? If "faith" is something everyone already has then why must it be "obtained"?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Savedbymercy, you posted...

No, the joke is on you, because no matter what you say, the bible Teaches that the Just SHALL [FUTURE TENSE] live by Faith,

Thats true, but nobody gains acccess to salvation until they choose to place
their faith in Christ. God will not do that for them.....

Come to me, all you who are weary and heavey laden, and you will find rest.

And placing ones faith is NOT a "work". God does not give us that option...

"For it is by grace you are saved, through faith, and that not of your self, it is the gift of God,not of works lest anyone should boast"

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Pet. 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

If faith is a work then why must it be "obtained"? If "faith" is something everyone already has then why must it be "obtained"?

A careful study of the immediate context of both Romans 1:16-17 and Galatians 3:10-12 will demonstrate the theme is experiential JUSTIFICATION not sanctification or God's purpose before the world or Christ's work on the cross that is in view.

A careful study of the phrase "the just shall live by faith" will reveal that contextually it is being contrasted to justification by the works of the law and is the only other alternative to justification by the works of the law.

A careful study of the phrase "the just shall live by faith" will demonstrate this is not speaking of sanctification or the Christians walk but rather a declarative statement of positional justification by faith.

The just = the justified.

"shall live" is not future predictive but factual declarative - legal life is obtained through justification.

"by faith" = declares the means in obtaining LEGAL LIFE before God.

 

[savedbymercy]

alive

Thats true, but nobody gains acccess to salvation until they choose to place
their faith in Christ. God will not do that for them.....

Thats salvation by works !