savedbymercy
New Member
Answer the questions, quit being scared and evasive, and show your true colors.
Ok then, If you agree with me, do you believe that everyone without exception that Christ died for shall be eternally saved ?
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The Just shall live by Faith !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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Answer the questions, quit being scared and evasive, and show your true colors.
Ok then, If you agree with me, do you believe that everyone without exception that Christ died for shall be eternally saved ?
IF they have placed faith in jesus to be their lord and saviour!
savedbymercy
New Member
Salvation by works !
salvation as per Yeshua!
-----------------Yes.-----------------------
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Rom. 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Since the gospel is "the power of God unto salvation" to only those who beleive it then any salvation obtained by faith is a gospel of works according to you?
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Jn. 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
In other words you believe both Jesus and John the Baptist also preached a gospel of works because they said only beleivers in their gospel "shall not perish" all who do not believe in their gospel will "perish" but only those who believe???
Jn. 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
The gospel they are to believe in you call a gospel of works because their gospel required faith to obtain the salvation of that gospel?
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Since the gospel is "the power of God unto salvation" to only those who beleive then according to you any gospel salvation that includes repentance and faith is a gospel of works???
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IF they have trusted in/believed on/place faith in the Son of God, and having done that, received eternal life in His name!
savedbymercy
New Member
Those who are declared Righteous by God, solely by His Grace and the Redemption that is through Christ Jesus Rom 3:24
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [His Death Alone Redeems] God does therefore make them experimentally Righteous by New Birth, for That New Man, that Man Born of Incorruptible Seed is Created as Per Eph 4:24
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This New Man cannot sin because it is born of God 1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
So the future tense of Rom 5:19, By the obedience of one, many shall be made Righteous, this implies the New Birth or to be come that New Created Man of Eph 4:24.
Just as by the disobedience of one [Adam], they are declared and born sinners, which their physical birth makes manifest, so in like manner, and afterwards, because of the obedience of one [Christ] they shall be born again experimentally made Righteous as in Eph 4:24. In other words, what God has reckoned declaratively True [ Righteous] must become True internally, and so in the New Birth God gives the Grace to Live Righteously, Godly, or by Faith, for the Just shall Live by Faith !
The word made in Rom 5:19 brings out both Truths, That God declares one Righteous because of the Obedience of One, and He constitutes or causes one to be Righteous experimentally by New Birth.
The greek word is kathistēmi:
to set, place, put
a) to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
b) to appoint one to administer an office
c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
e) to conduct or bring to a certain place
f) to show or exhibit one's self
1) come forward as
That word constitute one of its meanings is to create,
So Basically, all for whom Christ died, because of that Death alone they #1 Are Declared Righteous Before God and #2 Will Receive a New Birth in order to show to be Righteous !
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [His Death Alone Redeems] God does therefore make them experimentally Righteous by New Birth, for That New Man, that Man Born of Incorruptible Seed is Created as Per Eph 4:24
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This New Man cannot sin because it is born of God 1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
So the future tense of Rom 5:19, By the obedience of one, many shall be made Righteous, this implies the New Birth or to be come that New Created Man of Eph 4:24.
Just as by the disobedience of one [Adam], they are declared and born sinners, which their physical birth makes manifest, so in like manner, and afterwards, because of the obedience of one [Christ] they shall be born again experimentally made Righteous as in Eph 4:24. In other words, what God has reckoned declaratively True [ Righteous] must become True internally, and so in the New Birth God gives the Grace to Live Righteously, Godly, or by Faith, for the Just shall Live by Faith !
The word made in Rom 5:19 brings out both Truths, That God declares one Righteous because of the Obedience of One, and He constitutes or causes one to be Righteous experimentally by New Birth.
The greek word is kathistēmi:
to set, place, put
a) to set one over a thing (in charge of it)
b) to appoint one to administer an office
c) to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be
e) to conduct or bring to a certain place
f) to show or exhibit one's self
1) come forward as
That word constitute one of its meanings is to create,
So Basically, all for whom Christ died, because of that Death alone they #1 Are Declared Righteous Before God and #2 Will Receive a New Birth in order to show to be Righteous !
God CANNOT declare a sinner as a saint until he has effectually applied towards them the grace of/from the Cross, and that happens when they have received jesus by faith!
savedbymercy
New Member
The God I serve, The Cross of Christ gives Him the basis to count everyone He died for as Righteous and He does !
Rom 5:19b
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
God has put a million dollars into your bank account, but faith is the debit card to access it and pull it out!
savedbymercy
New Member
You serve a different god from the One I serve and Christ. The Christ I serve, by His One act of Obedience, all those He died for are made Righteous before God. Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one ]shall many be made righteous.
Even when a Elect sinner is born, they have no debt with God, they are accounted Righteous !
THAT is heresy, as you deny the truth that we are sinners, fallen short of the glory of God, and state that were are born into 'sinless perfection!"
savedbymercy
New Member
You call the Gospel Truth Heresy !
And you are a deceitful worker, where did I post that the elect are born with sinless perfection in and of themselves ?
However, all the Elect before God's Law and Justice, by the Offering of Christ have been perfected for all time Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
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savedbymercy
New Member
Faith is a Good Work !
The scripture declares that the believer is one who has been Created in Christ Jesus unto good works to walk in them ! ! Eph 2:9-10
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
One of the Good Works that they were created and ordained to walk in is Faith.
So Paul says of all Believers, The New Creation this 2 Cor 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight )
The scripture declares that the believer is one who has been Created in Christ Jesus unto good works to walk in them ! ! Eph 2:9-10
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
One of the Good Works that they were created and ordained to walk in is Faith.
So Paul says of all Believers, The New Creation this 2 Cor 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight )
You are completely ignorant of the text you are quoting. The explanatory phrase "FOR we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus" has reference to the previous statement in verse 8 "for by grace are ye saved through faith" which in turn is but a further explanation of the statement in verse 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
The point is that quickening is inclusive of faith as we are "saved by grace through faith" not saved by grace WITHOUT faith as you teach. The perfect tense demonstrates it was a completed action that stands completed and faith is part of that action.
Jesus disagrees with you about faith. He says it is a work of God (Jn. 6:29) and that He is the author of faith and the finisher (Heb. 12:2) and that coming to Christ in faith is something that must be "given to him" (Jn. 6:64-65) by the Father. Hence, faith is not a work.
You force "faith" to be a work because you do not distinguish between "faith" and "faithfulness." Ephesians 2:10 "unto good works" refers to faithfulness not faith. Justifiying faith is immediate consequence of the empowered Gospel as the Creative Word of God when it calls us out of darkness into light (1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Cor. 4:6; James 1:18; 2 Thes. 2:13-14).
There is no such thing as a seeing eye that does not see or a hearing ear that does not hear and therefore there is no such thing as a regenerated non-believer or a unregenerated believer. Regeneration is produced by God when God empowers the gospel as His Creative Word.
savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
No you are ! One of the very first works or acts of the New Creation is believe the Gospel and begin their walk of Faith !
Everyone Christ died for, was made Righteous or Just, and so, the Just MUST and SHALL live by Faith !
No you are ! One of the very first works or acts of the New Creation is believe the Gospel and begin their walk of Faith !
Everyone Christ died for, was made Righteous or Just, and so, the Just MUST and SHALL live by Faith !
However, Ephesians 2:8-10 also proves that regeneration and faith are inseparable from each other and that faith is not "of works" but is contained in the new birth by God.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Paul uses a paraphrastic construction joining a perfect tense verb with a present tense to be or linking verb that translates "are ye saved." The implication is that this "saved" event took place in the past as a completed action at a past point in time and stands complete right up to the present. That is the implication of the perfect tense alone. The joining with it the to be verb emphaiszes the continuance of that perfect state.
Now, those who would debate the point of completed action, I simply reply that the contextual definition of "saved" is quickening (vv. 1, 5) as the term "saved" is first linked with "quickened" in verse 5 as explanatory of "saved." Hence, "saved" in verse 8 refers back to quickening in verse 5. Either a person is spiritual dead or alive. There is no progressive quickening! If you are dead, you are dead. If you are alive you are alive. Hence, quickening is a COMPLETED POINT OF ACTION where the dead become alive at a given point in time. This is the reason for the perfect tense.
However, this perfect state completed action in past time was an action that was completed "THROUGH FAITH" at the point of its completion. In other words "faith" is inseparable from the completed action of being "saved." No human being is "saved" as a COMPLETED ACTION apart from "faith" but this kind of "saved" (quickening/regeneation) is completed "THROUGH FAITH." It is not something that produces faith but something that is completed as an point of action "THROUGH" faith.
Hence, this is a grammatical demand that "saved" and "faith" are inseparable at the POINT OF COMPLETED ACTION.
Furthermore, "saved" in this context refers to being QUICKENED (vv. 1,5, 10).which by its very nature is not a progressive action as one is either alive or dead. Quickening is exclusively an act of God as no man can raise the dead to life.
Now, look at the logical flow of thought from verse 8 to verse 10.
1. Here is what happened - "SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH"
2. The Denial of what it is to be attributed to:
a. Cannot be attributed to self - "and that not of yourself"
b. Cannot be attributed to works - "not of works lest any man should boast"
3. Assertion to whom it can be attributed to:
a. "It is a gift of God"
b. "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus"
4. Proof that "through faith" and "unto good works" are not synonomous
a. The action of saved/quickened cannot occur except "through faith"
b. Creation in Christ occurs prior to and thus without "good works"
Conclusion: There is no such thing as a unregenerated believer because faith cannot occur apart from and outside of regeneration. There is no such thing as a regenerated unbeliever because regeneration cannot occur apart from faith.
This is the same grammatical conclusion in 1 John 5:1 with the perfect tense verb "born" of God and the present tense participle "believeth."
Why can't you deal with the scriptures I repeatedly place in your face that prove what you say here is false?????? What scriptures you ask? John 6:64-65 that explicitly and clearly teach that faith is not of man but must be "given to him of the Father."
John 6:65 is provided as an EXPLANATION to why some of his PROFESSED disciples and Judas did not truly believe in him. John 6:64 says Jesus knew "FROM THE BEGINNING" who were not true believers among those professing to be his disciples. He knew "FROM THE BEGINNING" who they were and that is why Jesus said "NO MAN CAN come to me" meaning no man can come in saving faith to me - "EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN HIM of my Father."
John 6:29 is not a play on words but a declaration by Christ to the very same effect as John 6:44 and John 6:65 - "THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD that ye believe on him." Faith is NOT A WORK OF MAN but a "WORK OF GOD" because it must be "GIVEN UNTO HIM OF MY FATHER."
Romans 4:3-6 completely repudiates your false doctrine and false gospel. In Romans 4:1-3 Paul clearly and explicitly states that Abraham was justified "before God" (v. 1) not by works whereof he could glory but by faith - that very contrasts destroys your argument that justifiying faith is of works:
1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Anyone capable of third grade English can see that verse 3 is an outright denial that Abraham was justified by works (v. 2) but was justified by faith - meaning faith is not of works or else Paul's CONTRASTING conclusion to works (v. 2) in verse 3 makes no sense at all.
If your false doctrine were correct verses 2-3 should read as follows:
"SINCE Abraham was justified by works, seeing that faith is a work, but Abraham does not have whereof to glory since faith is a work of the new man"
If that is not suffienct to show your are teaching an absolute false gospel, false definition of faith, false grace then verses 3-6 surely exposes your spiritual darkness to the light of truth:
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
In verse 4 Paul denies that works can be "reckoned" or "counted" as grace but must be "reckoned" or "counted" as works. Do you understand that? If faith is of works as you say, then it cannot be "counted" or "reckoned" to be of grace but must be counted or reckoned of "debt." All works are attempts to PAY a debt or EARN favor. However, anything "of grace" cannot be EARNED and thus cannot be "OF DEBT."
Now, Paul is explicitly denying that justification by faith is "of debt" and therefore is not OF WORKS just as he declared in verse 2 "If Abraham were justified BY WORKS he hath whereof to glory but NOT BEFORE GOD." Abraham was not justified by works but by faith and therefore faith is not of works as verses 5-6 proves by contrasting works to faith:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works
Look at the last two words of verse 6 - "WITHOUT WORKS" and the first phrase of verse 5 "WORKETH NOT"! Paul makes these the contrast of imputed righteousness or justification BY FAITH proving justifying faith is not of works as he said in verses 2-3 and verse 4 and now in verses 5-6.
Last, he says the same thing in verse 16 "It is OF FAITH that it might be BY GRACE." However, your view would force this text to say "It is OF FAITH which is BY WORKS."
John 6:29, 44-45; 64-65 and Romans 4:1-6, 16 are a thorough repudiation of your false doctrine! I dare you to give any kind of rational exegetical based response to my exposition of these texts. I predicte you won't even attempt to do so because YOU CANNOT do so!