"The Lord told me . . ."

[1689Dave]

So jews were jews before jesus came, and after He came, now the lost ones are gentiles?

The OT Jews shared in two covenants. The Abrahamic covenant of circumcision and the Mosaic covenant of the Sabbath.
Jesus abolished both on the cross because the underlying purpose of both was to produce a people through which the Messiah would be born. Having fulfilled their purpose, God abolished both covenants.

If you recall, Abraham's covenant seed consisted of one of his offspring, Ishmael, and over 300 servants and their families. All of these became Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision. Any not circumcised were cut off and remained gentiles.

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, all of the covenant seed before the crucifixion died off in that 40 year generation or mostly perished in Jerusalem's destruction. Most of Paul's ministry to the Jews and their persecuting him took place in this transitional period as he worked to move them into the New Covenant.

Beyond calvary, circumcision lost its significance and remained an empty ritual. Nothing remained to make one Abraham's covenant seed.

But Israel was also a mixture of family and gentile converts, believers and unbelievers. Paul says for the family's sake God will save a remnant.

“So in the same way at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.” (Romans 11:5–6)

“What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was diligently seeking, but the elect obtained it. The rest were hardened,” (Romans 11:7)

“I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous.” (Romans 11:11)

“Now if their transgression means riches for the world and their defeat means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full restoration bring?” (Romans 11:12)

“Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear!” (Romans 11:20)

“And even they—if they do not continue in their unbelief—will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” (Romans 11:23)

“For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so [in this way] all Israel [Jew and Gentile followers of Christ] will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”” (Romans 11:25–27)

 

[Yeshua1]

The OT Jews shared in two covenants. The Abrahamic covenant of circumcision and the Mosaic covenant of the Sabbath.
Jesus abolished both on the cross because the underlying purpose of both was to produce a people through which the Messiah would be born. Having fulfilled their purpose, God abolished both covenants.

If you recall, Abraham's covenant seed consisted of one of his offspring, Ishmael, and over 300 servants and their families. All of these became Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision. Any not circumcised were cut off and remained gentiles.

When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, all of the covenant seed before the crucifixion died off in that 40 year generation or mostly perished in Jerusalem's destruction. Most of Paul's ministry to the Jews and their persecuting him took place in this transitional period as he worked to move them into the New Covenant.

Beyond calvary, circumcision lost its significance and remained an empty ritual. Nothing remained to make one Abraham's covenant seed.

But Israel was also a mixture of family and gentile converts, believers and unbelievers. Paul says for the family's sake God will save a remnant.

“So in the same way at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.” (Romans 11:5–6)

“What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was diligently seeking, but the elect obtained it. The rest were hardened,” (Romans 11:7)

“I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous.” (Romans 11:11)

“Now if their transgression means riches for the world and their defeat means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full restoration bring?” (Romans 11:12)

“Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear!” (Romans 11:20)

“And even they—if they do not continue in their unbelief—will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” (Romans 11:23)

“For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so [in this way] all Israel [Jew and Gentile followers of Christ] will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”” (Romans 11:25–27)

There are both spiritual Jews and lost Jews to this very day!

 

[1689Dave]

There are both spiritual Jews and lost Jews to this very day!

The call themselves Jews but the only biblical Jews are followers of Christ. God turned the unbelievers into gentiles and he brings a remnant of the original family to faith in Christ along with the gentiles. The times of the gentiles remain until the end of the world.

 

[Yeshua1]

The call themselves Jews but the only biblical Jews are followers of Christ. God turned the unbelievers into gentiles and he brings a remnant of the original family to faith in Christ along with the gentiles. The times of the gentiles remain until the end of the world.

The lost jews are still Jews, for once saved, would they convert back from gentiles to Jews?

 

[1689Dave]

The lost jews are still Jews, for once saved, would they convert back from gentiles to Jews?

Physical unbelieving Israel (Jews) became gentiles. Believing Gentiles became Israel (Jews). Believing gentiles who think they are Jews become reattached to Israel (Jews).

 

[Yeshua1]

Physical unbelieving Israel (Jews) became gentiles. Believing Gentiles became Israel (Jews). Believing gentiles who think they are Jews become reattached to Israel (Jews).

You do know that none of that is in the Bible?

 

[1689Dave]

You do know that none of that is in the Bible?

This is a synopsis of what the bible says. The only Jews or Israel since Calvary are those who accepted Jesus. The rest are heathen.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is a synopsis of what the bible says. The only Jews or Israel since Calvary are those who accepted Jesus. The rest are heathen.

They are lost jews....

 

[1689Dave]

They are lost jews....

There are lost Japanese, lost Mexicans and lost Americans. But only one race, the human race. The only biblical Jews or Israel is in Christ. There are those who say they are Jews and are not. A more appropriate name for them would be Pharisees. Today's "Jews" claim the Pharisees that escaped the destruction of Jerusalem as their ancestors.

 

[Alcott]

But only one race, the human race.

I've heard that said plenty of times, almost always by whites. And if there is only one race, there is no such thing as racism.

 

[1689Dave]

I've heard that said plenty of times, almost always by whites. And if there is only one race, there is no such thing as racism.

“And [God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26)

 

[Yeshua1]

I've heard that said plenty of times, almost always by whites. And if there is only one race, there is no such thing as racism.

I never knew that Jews become Gentile while lost, and we become Jews once saved!

 

[1689Dave]

I never knew that Jews become Gentile while lost, and we become Jews once saved!

When circumcision determined who was a Jew and who was not, all circumcised members of the community were Abraham's covenant seed. Whether they believed or not. Many worshipped Molech but they were still Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision. BTW, isn't it being racist to say there are races when there are not? God made the human race of one blood.

 

[Yeshua1]

When circumcision determined who was a Jew and who was not, all circumcised members of the community were Abraham's covenant seed. Whether they believed or not. Many worshipped Molech but they were still Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision. BTW, isn't it being racist to say there are races when there are not? God made the human race of one blood.

The circumcision identified the Jew as being under the OC with Yahweh, but did NOT cause them to be now Jewish!

 

[1689Dave]

The circumcision identified the Jew as being under the OC with Yahweh, but did NOT cause them to be now Jewish!

Jewishness is a false religion called Judaism. Just as Mormons are related, they are not a race, but also a false religion.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The lost jews are still Jews, for once saved, would they convert back from gentiles to Jews?

When a Jew is saved, he is no longer a Jew, because, 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ'sthen you are Abraham;s seed and heirs according to the promise' (Galatians 3:28-29).

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you. I'm sorry I took so long to get back with you, but I have little down time in the last few days. I see I wandered into waters over my head when I used the word "revelation." I say that because after looking at this website:

ἀποκάλυψις | billmounce.com

Mounce is usually quite good, and he is a help in this case.

I now see that 1 Corinthians 14:6 and 14:26 indicate that the word apokalypsis in the NT means something very specific that I do not understand. It has to be if revelation, knowledge, prophecy, and interpretation are all distinct and separate.

Now you're cooking with Wisconsin butter! I would say that in those two passages, the "revelation" is what I've defined before: general truth for all rather than specific guidance for an individual.

Thank you again. I must say that I used revelation in the English sense of information of any type communicated to a human being from a supernatural entity. The problem with this is that it is not a biblical usage.

Most religions don't have "revelation" in the Bible sense. They may not even have any writings (Shinto). They may have holy books (the Koran), but even in the case of Islam, the Koran is not a guide to the average Muslim because it is not even allowed to be translated. Non-Arabic speaking Muslims are usually ignorant of the Koran's contents. in the case of Taoism (the Tao Te Ching) and Confucianism (the Analects, etc.), the content is human philosophy and not revelation.

A better word may the phrase "God communicates." I see now He is not silent, instead though, the Charismatics had poisoned me to the truth of when He does communicate in some way. I see now how special a Calling is.

My call to preach was incredibly special. I hesitate to even describe it to others.

I will go study the cases of those who God communicated with. It's time to dive into testimonies it seems and Perpetua's story is also high on my list to read.

Good, as long as you remember that none of Perpetua's story is revelation, and it is not all reliable. One author pointed out that "Some part of the story may be legendary" (Elliot Wright, quoted in From Jerusalem to Irian Jaya, 2nd ed., by Ruth Tucker, p. 33).

 

[Yeshua1]

When a Jew is saved, he is no longer a Jew, because, 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ'sthen you are Abraham;s seed and heirs according to the promise' (Galatians 3:28-29).

That refers to us being now saved in Christ, and thus there are no more distinctions in the sight of God based upon whether we are male/female/Jewish/Gentiles, but we are still male/female/jew/gentile physically, or do we become no sex once saved?

 

[HankD]

God is God of love. Not one that is violent or seeks revenge. He could never do anything bad due to being The God of all Gods. Love, mercy, grace, etc.

God destroyed the earth with a flood, millions drowned.

Sometimes love hurts.

 

[kyredneck]

I never knew that Jews become Gentile while lost, and we become Jews once saved!

Yea, there's a whole lot of things you don't know but that's never stifled your spouting in the least.

2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12

If the Corinthians were no longer Gentiles, what were they? Hint:

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

Who do you think it is that comprises 'dogs', 'evil workers', and 'the concision' of v 2?