-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Meaning of 'World' in John 3:16
- Thread starter Martin Marprelate
- Start date
- Status
Luke 6
46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Calvinist: Well its because you didn't want them to!
I don't believe Jesus was stupid.
That Goid saves us based upon human free will?
Luke 6
46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
Calvinist: Well its because you didn't want them to!
I don't believe Jesus was stupid.
Did you say that?
Well if you had reading comprehension we wouldn't be debating in the first place. You barely get the stuff I write, right.
The sentence next to it goes with it. I don't think Jesus had ADD. I don't think in a middle of a sermon he just blurts out OH I LIKE FRIED CHICKEN!
He is clearly talking about peoples REFUSAL of what he teaches.
47“Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: 48he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49“But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”
Again USELESS advice. Calvinist would have to explain to Jesus no the only reason people do act or not is because he wanted them or did not.
Matthew 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Calvinist: How often? NEVER! He never wanted to gather them.
We find a starving child middle of the road. Child asks does God love them?
Calvinist: Love? you mean love like he loves Jesus? :Shrug: Maybe you get a 2nd class love.
God is LOVE. LOVE is GOD 1 john 4
That will never work with a theology that teaches God doesn't love you and there is NOTHING about you worth Loving.
The Good always wins over Evil. I read the ending.
The holy spirit convinces men of Christ all the time. One thing for certain men are not saved before they believe.
MB
Paul was saved. Jesus intervened when? He did not believe, He did not have faith, He wasn't chosen.
We are told of God's motivation.
1 timothy 1
Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
Luke 5
31And Jesus answered and said to them, “It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick. 32“I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
If your elect/justified/righteous, Jesus is not here for you.
If your a saint/believer/faithful. Jesus is not here for you.
Jesus is here for that sinner especially the one you don't want him to help.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Before a man can repent and believe he must first be regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
"Before a man can repent and believe he must first be regenerated by the Holy Spirit."
Paul himself was not regenerated or born again. On contrary, He was struck blind.
You might argue that you would have to be born again and regenerated before man understands gospel
1 peter 1
23for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
Being born again happens through the word of God. You can't have regeneration till after.
John 1
12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
The right to become children of God comes after the reception, after believing.
Acts 9
17So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 1
Now this whole time Paul could have refused never having the holy spirit and neither being regenerated to do anything Jesus commands.
Acts 9
4and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”
Here some would argue there is nothing Paul can do, Nor would have the capacity to obey Jesus. But here he is recognizing the Lord, being obedient and doing as commanded.
Paul tells us himself how mercy came to him. he was struck blind and disciplined. None of this regeneration brain transplant hocus pocus. Its the same man disciplined and taught in the proper way.
1 timothy 1
13even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
And Jesus uses this a demonstration. For who and why? If you insist on the idea of pre regeneration, That's like showing your television a movie about how a proper TV turns on when you hit the power button. That ought to sound absurd to most people, but it ought to make perfect sense to a Calvinist.
Here Jesus demonstrating to non-believers so they WOULD believe. But at the same time you would swear regardless what he demonstrates its till up to Jesus to hit that power button.
That is not what this verse says
He didn't save me until I believed. I do not believe that He saved you before you did either.
Regeneration is being made knew or simply being saved. You would have men being saved with out faith. If this were the case. No one would ever be spiritually minded which means simply to think on spiritual things. You will also claim men cannot hear the gospel but Paul says they can.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
With out confessing Christ no one is saved. It's ridiculous to assume otherwise. Confessing Christ is not a work. It's a required necessity..
MB
You believed because He regenerated your sin sick soul. He removed your cold, dead heart of sin and replaced it with a new, living, believing heart of faith.
The operative words in your sentence are "I do not believe."
Faith, repentance, and godly living are the result of regeneration, not the cause of it.
Please do not tell untruths about what I claim or believe.
You seem to have confused regeneration with salvation. They are not the same thing. The one results in the other.
Nobody on this thread makes that assumption.
Confessing Christ is the result of being given a new heart of faith. It is one of the "good works" of Ephesians 2:10.
Standing before men and confessing Jesus Is Lord is our only method of Salvation
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Regeneration does not bring faith. Hearing God's word does
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I do not deny that my Salvation is a work of God. It is you that tells me it's my work. You don't believe all things are possible with God. That He saves sinners the "who so evers"not saved people.
MB[/QUOTE]
Not so. Being saved so we can believe is found no where in scripture. Only Confessing Jesus as Lord will get us Salvation.
I'll say it again I do not believe you were regenerated before you believed.
Only partially true. We receive faith by hearing the gospel.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Regeneration does not bring faith. Hearing God's word does
I believe this is a debate forum. Disagreements are what debate is all about. I disagree with your view and obviously you dislike that.
Not so I'm not confused. I see the truth of scripture and you tell me I'm confused.
Not everyone here agrees with Calvinism. I reject it completely
Not so "faith cometh by hearing the word of God.
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I do not deny that my Salvation is a work of God. It is you that tells me it's my work. You don't believe all things are possible with God. That He saves sinners the "who so evers"not saved people.
MB[/QUOTE]
The first thing Paul did was call Jesus Lord and ask Him who He was when light surrounded Him. Paul Knew it was the Lord and responded in this light.
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord?
Jesus told Paul who He was But calling Him Lord is a confession that saved Paul. Then in the next verse He submits to the Lord.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Many Calvinist seem to ignore what is really said and done here. Trully a work of God just as it is with every sinners.Confession That Jesus is Lord and submission to the will of the Lord..
Yes Paul was shown mercy just as every sinner is shown mercy.
True every word a person that is regenerated is no longer sick or in need of Salvation.
If your elect/justified/righteous, Jesus is not here for you.
If your a saint/believer/faithful. Jesus is not here for you.
Jesus is here for that sinner especially the one you don't want him to help.[/QUOTE]
MB
The answer to this is as simple as it gets it's called CONVICTION of the man's present state as a sinner. When we are Convicted we begin to hope for a way out of our perdicament. That way Is Jesus Christ as Lord this knowledge of the Lord is what causes the Conviction because He suffered our punishment for our sins on the cross. Christ died for the sins of the world.
MB
Why not show this in scripture? It's because this view is not stated in scripture. It's only an assumption.
MB
Please show scripture that clearly states your view.
MB
- Status