The Mental Illness/Sin Threads

[Steadfast Fred]

Yet that has never been at issue.

It is obvious to us that with some it is an issue though they say "that has never been an issue."

 

[padredurand]

Like I said drugs cover while confession and forsaking sets one free. The thing is not all people believe the word of God so they trust drugs instead.

Believing in the Word of God and trusting prescription medications are two entirely different topics of discussion. Not one poster in 5 threads has disputed what the Word says about sin. Nobody has questioned the wicked state of man's heart. Nobody has questioned the power of God to save nor the sufficiency of the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No poster has advocated or even implied that that folks don't need sound Biblical counsel.

What is at question is your belief that the human brain unless injured functions properly and any behavior you determine to be improper automatically defaults to an issue of sin.

At the foundation of your belief is the "mind is immaterial" argument. If the premise is flawed the argument will be flawed. You continually accuse everyone of rejecting the Word while you are espousing the ancient Greek philosophy of DUALISM advanced by Aristotle, Plato and Descartes. You have accused others of embracing the DSM-IV while you embrace Principia Philosophiæ. I don't get it.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Believing in the Word of God and trusting prescription medications are two entirely different topics of discussion. Not one poster in 5 threads has disputed what the Word says about sin. Nobody has questioned the wicked state of man's heart. Nobody has questioned the power of God to save nor the sufficiency of the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No poster has advocated or even implied that that folks don't need sound Biblical counsel.

What is at question is your belief that the human brain unless injured functions properly and any behavior you determine to be improper automatically defaults to an issue of sin.

At the foundation of your belief is the "mind is immaterial" argument. If the premise is flawed the argument will be flawed. You continually accuse everyone of rejecting the Word while you are espousing the ancient Greek philosophy of DUALISM advanced by Aristotle, Plato and Descartes. You have accused others of embracing the DSM-IV while you embrace Principia Philosophiæ. I don't get it.

As soon as you can produce a picture of the alleged "material mind", you will be able to prove our argument is flawed. As of yet, you haven't.

 

[seekingthetruth]

As soon as you can produce a picture of the alleged "material mind", you will be able to prove our argument is flawed. As of yet, you haven't.

Can you show me a picture of air?

Without it you would die, but can you see it?

John

 

[DHK]

As soon as you can produce a picture of the alleged "material mind", you will be able to prove our argument is flawed. As of yet, you haven't.

I have a book called the Bible. The words printed on the page we call the Word of God. God promised to preserve His Word. But if it is preserved in the one I hold in my hand, it is not in the one in your hand is it? In other words, the actual "Word of God" is not the printed word either is it?

 

[Fred's Wife]

While the "air" exists, it (the air), like the "mind" is immaterial. Just as you cannot take a picture of the mind, you cannot take a picture of the air.

Tell you what; go down to your local hardware store, buy a can of spray paint, spray paint the air and take a picture of it. Post the picture in this thread.

When you can do that, then we'll admit that the air is material.

Then you can repeat the same process with the mind.

 

[mandym]

All this mumbo jumbo about the immaterial mind is baloney. Mental health issues are a reaction to a physical action in the brain. It is real, it is material, and it is physical. Foolish people.

 

[DHK]

While the "air" exists, it (the air), like the "mind" is immaterial. Just as you cannot take a picture of the mind, you cannot take a picture of the air.

Tell you what; go down to your local hardware store, buy a can of spray paint, spray paint the air and take a picture of it. Post the picture in this thread.

When you can do that, then we'll admit that the air is material.

Then you can repeat the same process with the mind.

Let this mind be in you which also is in Jesus Christ.

You cannot see the mind of God.
But it is written in the Bible, at least what he wants us to know.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

No one is questioning the existence of the mind. We have never said it does not exist.

What we attest to is the fact that the mind is not a material object that one can see, touch or hold.

You errantly keep posting as if we deny the existence of the mind

The mind is not the brain. It is an immaterial thing that has no shape or form.

Being immaterial, it cannot catch diseases. Diseases attach themselves to physical things.

What God wants us to know is written in the Bible. And God has provided in the Bible the answer for every disorder found in the DSM.

When fear comes upon us, we are told to look to God (not take a pill)
When we are depressed, we are told to look to God (not take a pill)
When we are oppressed by the enemy (hearing voices telling us to do harm to ourselves), we are told to look to God (not take a pill)


There are answers in the Word of God for every *disorder* known to man, if only man would search diligently he would find them.

 

[DHK]

There are answers in the Word of God for every *disorder* known to man, if only man would search diligently he would find them.

You shouldn't be posting about things you know not of.

Q: What are neurological disorders and how many people are affected by them?
A: Neurological disorders are diseases of the central and peripheral nervous system. In other words, the brain, spinal cord, cranial nerves, peripheral nerves, nerve roots, autonomic nervous system, neuromuscular junction, and muscles. These disorders include epilepsy, Alzheimer disease and other dementias, cerebrovascular diseases including stroke, migraine and other headache disorders, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, neuroinfections, brain tumours, traumatic disorders of the nervous system such as brain trauma, and neurological disorders as a result of malnutrition.

http://www.who.int/features/qa/55/en/index.html


You can take the Bible to people who have Parkinson's, epilepsy, stroke victims, MS patients, and just tell them, "if you confess your sin, ask forgiveness your "disorder" will go away.



That is quackery. And it is dangerous to post on the internet.

 

[mandym]

No one is questioning the existence of the mind. We have never said it does not exist.

What we attest to is the fact that the mind is not a material object that one can see, touch or hold.

You errantly keep posting as if we deny the existence of the mind

The mind is not the brain. It is an immaterial thing that has no shape or form.

Being immaterial, it cannot catch diseases. Diseases attach themselves to physical things.

What God wants us to know is written in the Bible. And God has provided in the Bible the answer for every disorder found in the DSM.

When fear comes upon us, we are told to look to God (not take a pill)
When we are depressed, we are told to look to God (not take a pill)
When we are oppressed by the enemy (hearing voices telling us to do harm to ourselves), we are told to look to God (not take a pill)


There are answers in the Word of God for every *disorder* known to man, if only man would search diligently he would find them.

You have no idea what in the world you are talking about.

 

[Amy.G]

You shouldn't be posting about things you know not of.

And yet, he is allowed to.

That is quackery. And it is dangerous to post on the internet.

And yet, he is allowed to. Go figure.

 

[Fred's Wife]

The two words most commonly translated "mind" in the N.T. are nous (Luke 24:45) (denotes the seat of reflective consciousness, comprising the faculties of perception and understanding, and those of feeling, judging and determining) and dianoia (Matthew 22:37) (a thinking through, or over, a meditation, reflecting, signifies the faculty of knowing, understanding, or moral reflection) (Vine, W.E., An Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

The mind exists but is NOT MATERIAL.

 

[mandym]

The "mind" cannot function separate from the brain. If the material brain is dysfunctional then the "mind" is dysfunctional.

 

[DHK]

The two words most commonly translated "mind" in the N.T. are nous (Luke 24:45) (denotes the seat of reflective consciousness, comprising the faculties of perception and understanding, and those of feeling, judging and determining) and dianoia (Matthew 22:37) (a thinking through, or over, a meditation, reflecting, signifies the faculty of knowing, understanding, or moral reflection) (Vine, W.E., An Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

The mind exists but is NOT MATERIAL.

And this makes you an expert on neurological "disorders" such as epilepsy, MS, Parkinson's, stroke victims, etc., and all that without a medical degree? Amazing! What does the AMA say?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

You shouldn't be posting about things you know not of.

http://www.who.int/features/qa/55/en/index.html


You can take the Bible to people who have Parkinson's, epilepsy, stroke victims, MS patients, and just tell them, "if you confess your sin, ask forgiveness your "disorder" will go away.



That is quackery. And it is dangerous to post on the internet.

Funny, no doctor's names or credentials with that article. Wonder why?

I have articles and quotations by qualified psychiatrists and neurologists that state that there is no such thing as "mental disease."

Oh, that's right. You don't want to hear from those professionals.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

What is the name of that doctor that said the mind can be diseased? I'd like to call him and ask him how he came to that conclusion when no other doctor has ever produced a picture of a mind either through MRI's or EEG's or any other medical test known to man.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

In the DSM-IV, there are many (ahem) disorders that fall under the classification of "Anxiety Disorders" These include: PD, OCD, PTSD, GAD, SAD, and phobias.

Now, the worldly psychiatrist says "Take this Diazepam" and "Paroxetine will help you deal with these problems"

The Bible gives different advice. "Trust in the Lord", "Call upon Him".

The DSM-IV, the Psychiatrist's Bible, was written by fallible man. The Word of God was not.

Sadly, so many Christians would hold psychiatrist's advice in higher regard than the words of the Holy Spirit who gave us the Word of God.

 

[Fred's Wife]

And this makes you an expert on neurological "disorders" such as epilepsy, MS, Parkinson's, stroke victims, etc., and all that without a medical degree? Amazing! What does the AMA say?

Quoting an expository of Biblical Words is supposed to make me an expert on neurological "disorders"? Wow! I never mentioned epilepsy, Parkinson's, or strokes...so why are you assuming that I some type of medical expert with a "so-called" medical degree? I have never made ANY claims about having a degree of any kind and it is a false assumption on your part to state otherwise.

The mind is not the brain. I have yet to see someone post a picture of the MIND. If the MIND were indeed PHYSICAL, then someone should be able to post a picture of that PHYSICAL MIND. All you folks can come up with is a "brain scan" which proves nothing.

If you can't post a picture of the MIND, how can anyone know what "disease" it has? Either you prove otherwise (that the mind is physical and material), or cease from making false accusations about people claiming to be medical experts and having degrees.

 

[DHK]

Funny, no doctor's names or credentials with that article. Wonder why?

I have articles and quotations by qualified psychiatrists and neurologists that state that there is no such thing as "mental disease."

Oh, that's right. You don't want to hear from those professionals.

Excuse me? Did you look at the top of the page?
It is the WHO or World Health Organization's official website, and a link to many of their official publications written by well qualified scientists, doctors and researchers.
It is far more reliable than the previous utube link I was given with the anecdotal testimony of "how I got free from anti-depressants."