Originally posted by TexasSky:
Piony,
It is Pinoy, Texas Sky, the 'n' before the 'o', I say that merely to avoid your mistakenly omitting the 'i' sometime, and so now, I become a pony, which is a small horse, and small I am not at 250 lbs.
Let me answer you by asking you a question that Ralph Smith once asked a congreation in Austin, Texas.
"If you only believe a part of the bible - which parts do you refuse to believe? The virgin birth? The death of Christ on the cross? The resurrection of Christ? Do you accept the great flood, but reject the prophecies of the Messiah?"
There is no part of the Bible I do not believe. I believe Peter when he says that no scripture is of any private interpretation......, I also believe Paul when he says, everything that has been written aforetime were written for our learning...I believe the virgin birth, the substitutionary atonement in 2 Corinthians 5:20, the believer's present position in Christ in Ephesians 2:6, I believe in the efficacy of the blood of Christ as taught in Hebrews.
But, you are inferring that my eternal salvation, and the success of Christ's work on my behalf, is dependent on whether or not I believe the Bible, and
that I do not believe, nor find to be in Scriptures.
I belive every prophecy that Jesus Christ has uttered, and I believe that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.
I have no problem at all with the New Testament, except the fact that we teach the Epistles of Paul, Peter, John, and Jude to be as equally God-breathed as the writings of the prophets of old.
That is where I am asking for Scripture. Not historical documents, not inferences, but Scripture, since without a doubt, your position, as well as mine, is Sola Scriptura.
Paul was not egotistical enough to think that the letters he was writing would ever be part of the Holy Scripture.
Agreed.
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But then again, neither was David or King Solumn or Nahum or any of the other authors of God's Holy word. I don't even know if Moses realized it.
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Disagreed. The prophets of old were told by God Himself to 'write', and more than 400 times the phrase 'Thus saith the Lord', were written down by prophets and Scripture writers. They were not egotistical, but they sure were directly told to write and repeat.
You cannot "pick and choose". Either the bible IS the insipired word of God or it is NOT. Either it is ALL accurate or .. none of it can be trusted.
I do not think accuracy has ever been an issue from the start of this thread. I agree that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but then again, which Bible ? The Bible of 39 books of the Old Testament ? or the Bible of the 27 books of the New Testament ? Or the Bible of 66 books as we know it ?
If it is the 66 books, again the question begs itself. Where is Scripture that shows that the Epistles were, by and in themselves, God-breathed words of revelation such as the Old Testament ?
You ask me to show where the scripture says that the New Testament is God breathed - first - look at Revelation and John's comments about dot and tittles.
I think I first pointed out about the book of Revelation being the only book that says write, saith the Lord, or words to that effect.
Then look at Paul carefully separating, "I say this, not the Lord." Clearly implying the other statements in Timothy came from God.
I think I will disaggree with that. Paul is pretty much like any modern preacher who, at this point, is saying, 'this is what I think, but I do not say take this as doctrine'. If you preach, you probably have been in just such a situation, when trying to drive home a point to which you cannot testify to be accurate Biblical doctrine.
I know I have been in such a situation at times.
Gray areas in Scripture can present such a situation, where we say what, to us, seems to be what Scripture indicates.
I will agree to your second point, that the entire letter to Timothy, except those that Paul had clearly identified as his, is from God, but only in the sense that Paul builds his premise from the writings of the Old Testament, and
those , not the letter to Timothy, were God-breathed.
Look at the fact that the greatest Jewish scholars of Christ's age tried to find a scripture to allow them to present Him as a fraud or to declare His teachings wrong and their total inability to do so.
Of course they would not be able to find anything to pin on Him, He was the One who breathed those words in the Book they were holding, which, by the way, is the Old Testament, not the 66 books of the Bible we say are all God-breathed.
These men knew the Hebrew Bible more than we will EVER know it, and even they could not show any error in the teachings of Christ - though they tried despreately to do so.
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Moot and academic, considering the previous reply to your first point.
Then look, and you see that the rest of the New Testament NEVER contradicts Christ. It quotes Him, it fills in descriptions. It never contradicts Him and therefore never contradicts the old testament because HE never contradicted the old testament.
I never said the New Testament contradicts Christ. What I said is where is the Scripture on which we base our assertions that only the 66 books are God-inspired, and on those who proclaimed such based their authority for rejecting the other books found in the Catholic Bible ?
I know that John 14:26 says the following:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
But I can only say that this is with regards to the gospel writers, who quoted Christ, and told of what He did, and of what He taught.
I am not yet ready to expand this to mean also Paul and his epistles, or Peter and his two letters, or the three letters of John, or the letter of Jude, or that of the writer to the Hebrews, since none of them have any special revelations similar to that given to the prophets of the Old Testament.
They were affirming, giving substance, to what was written in the Old Testament. Paul very ably expounded and exposed on what the Old Testament says.
He imlied, in the third person, to have gone to the third heaven, yes, and hear unspeakable words, but he said these words were not lawful to be spoken, and so he never wrote in any of his letters what words he heard.
Please note, my doubt is not in the Bible, but, in
our claim that
all 66 books were God breathed ?
Could it be possible we are wrong ?
