The Orthodox church has the seniority

[JonC]

yes

God has no denomination. However. his church consists of denominations (who have the same gospel)

wish we would get back to city churches.

I agree.

His Church does, but there are also churches that are independent and do not follow an external organization (Baptists are a good example....First Baptist in New York is different from First Baptist in Montana....different leadership, perhaps different doctrines and practices).

But the Church taken as the Church of Christ or the Bride is beyond denomination differences.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They certainly did. But I think this was to be expected. The Reformers were Catholic. It would be impossible for them to simoly start with Scripture as they were deeply Catholic. They could only address what stood out to them as error while not addressing errors they took for granted.

I also believe they made a mistake by trying to correct error in the existing doctrine (trying to bring the existing doctrine closer to Scripture) rather than simply starting with God's Word. But I was not there, and perhaps that was not possible for them in that environment.

it would have been better if they just started from scratch. took the word out. to see what it said.

I think of Paul. who knew the OT word for word. but did not know it.. until Christ met him on the way to damascus. and all of a sudden, He not only Knew the word. but he KNEW (understood) it.

Sadly. I know many catholics who do not know the word. let alone KNOW IT

and many protestant churches I see the same

 

[JonC]

yes, in the roman church.. they had to keep people from reading a bible it would expose them as frauds.

Reminds me of The Book of Eli (the movie).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not only that....we can read God's Word in the current English vernacular and we have so many language tools (we also have Greek and Hebrew texts with parallel English translations).

I like Bible software. I can read a passage in the KJV, NASB, and NIV (typically I use these three) and click on a word to get the Greek.

I use Logos.. I have so many resources I do not know what to do with all of them..lol

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Peter is specifically and explicitly given charge of Jesus flock by Jesus Himself.

this is your church telling you this.

Yes it is. “ It was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven “

Peter had another guiding revelation direct from Heaven.

“I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners”

lol. This does not make him a POPE. or Gods Vicar.

He did not replace Christ.

Jesus wasn’t speaking Greek, He spoke Aramaic and called Simon Kepha, Rock , Cephas in Hebrew, these mean large Rock.

It was written to us in greek by Mathew.

nice try bud.. I will trust Mathew. Not your church. ok?

The Greek has masculine and feminine delineation, and had to be translated Petros for the masculine addressee. The writer could not call Peter Petrina.

lol. Petros is masculin.

again, nice try.

He also said the gates of hades will not prevail. It will not stop the church from entering these gates and rescuing people out from satans grasp.

Peter is not the church. The church is christ.

This fact alone tells me the roman church is not Gods church. but there are so many more

Peter being called Cephas and not evna, means Jesus was calling Peter Rock. And it is first person singular.
“ You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church “

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree.

His Church does, but there are also churches that are independent and do not follow an external organization (Baptists are a good example....First Baptist in New York is different from First Baptist in Montana....different leadership, perhaps different doctrines and practices).

But the Church taken as the Church of Christ or the Bride is beyond denomination differences.

I have belonged or independent Baptist and general Baptist churches..

not much difference really.. thats why I call them a denomination..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Reminds me of The Book of Eli (the movie).

yes. that opened alot of eyes I hope

 

[Cathode]

I agree.

His Church does, but there are also churches that are independent and do not follow an external organization (Baptists are a good example....First Baptist in New York is different from First Baptist in Montana....different leadership, perhaps different doctrines and practices).

But the Church taken as the Church of Christ or the Bride is beyond denomination differences.

But a Catholic Church in the Outback has one and same faith and governance as a Catholic Church in New York or Montana.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But a Catholic Church in the Outback has one and same faith and governance as a Catholic Church in New York or Montana.

yes. all based on words of men.. Not the word of God.

 

[JonC]

I have belonged or independent Baptist and general Baptist churches..

not much difference really.. thats why I call them a denomination..

I generally use "denominations" the same way as well.

I am a member of a SBC church, and when I move I look for SBC churches to visit. The readon is I know they share some of the same beliefs. But at the same time the SBC is just a convention and has no authority over its churches.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I generally use "denominations" the same way as well.

I am a member of a SBC church, and when I move I look for SBC churches to visit. The readon is I know they share some of the same beliefs. But at the same time the SBC is just a convention and has no authority over its churches.

I was a member of the GARBC, I was saved in that church.. after the pastor left. It was pretty much never the same. which was sad (I drove by the church a year ago, it is boarded up)

 

[rockytopva]

I generally use "denominations" the same way as well.

I am a member of a SBC church, and when I move I look for SBC churches to visit. The readon is I know they share some of the same beliefs. But at the same time the SBC is just a convention and has no authority over its churches.

As far as i am concerned the senior pastor rules the rooste these days. A good Senior Pastor can make any Christian church good. And a slothful Senior Pastor can bring any church low. I believe it is in order for good Christian elders to give Senior Pastors direction as well.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As far as i am concerned the senior pastor rules the rooste these days. A good Senior Pastor can make any Christian church good. And a slothful Senior Pastor can bring any church low. I believe it is in order for good Christian elders to give Senior Pastors direction as well.

My church has a group of elders..

Then we have a group of pastors.

then we split into home groups (much smaller) and each of them have pastors and leaders.

I think the single pastor model has failed. and Jesus never called for us to do this.. as this has caused many a church to fall. when the man in charge gets decieved, he can take his whole church down with him

 

[rockytopva]

Orthodox, Catholic, Protestants wading through the duck test. In which they will likely end up Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant. Church History Under the Duck Test: The Orthodox Have to Decide

 

[Cathode]

this is your church telling you this.

Jesus words in Scripture tell us this. If you believe Jesus, Peter will be your Shepherd.

lol. This does not make him a POPE. or Gods Vicar.

He did not replace Christ.

Jesus left Peter in charge to be the visible Head of His Church on Earth, Jesus is the invisible Head of the Church in Heaven.

It was written to us in greek by Mathew.

nice try bud.. I will trust Mathew. Not your church. ok?

Yet Jesus spoke Aramaic and said Kepha in both instances addressing Peter in the first person singular. And Peter later called Cephas large Rock in Scripture means your understanding is false.

lol. Petros is masculin.

again, nice try.

Like I said, Petros is the masculine. Didn’t you even read what I wrote.

He also said the gates of hades will not prevail. It will not stop the church from entering these gates and rescuing people out from satans grasp.

Peter is not the church. The church is christ.

This fact alone tells me the roman church is not Gods church. but there are so many more

The gates of Hell prevail against Protestant churches all the time, Church splits and dissolution in huge numbers, there more extinct Protestant churches than active.

The Chair of Peter still remains after 2000 years, which is the miracle of Jesus own word and power.

“I think it my duty to consult the chair of Peter, and to turn to a church whose faith has been praised by Paul…The fruitful soil of Rome, when it receives the pure seed of the Lord, bears fruit an hundredfold…My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the church is built! This is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails.” Jerome, To Pope Damasus, Epistle 15:1-2 (A.D. 375).

“Number the bishops from the See of Peter itself. And in that order of Fathers see who has succeeded whom. That is the rock against which the gates of hell do not prevail” Augustine, Psalm against the Party of Donatus, 18 (A.D. 393).

“I am held in the communion of the Catholic Church by…and by the succession of bishops from the very seat of Peter, to whom the Lord, after His resurrection commended His sheep to be fed up to the present episcopate.” Augustine, Against the Letter of Mani, 5 (A.D. 395).

 

[JonC]

Orthodox, Catholic, Protestants wading through the duck test. In which they will likely end up Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant. Church History Under the Duck Test: The Orthodox Have to Decide

The "primacy" claim of the Roman Catholic Church simply goes back to secular power. This is one thing I mean by mentioning the Book of Eli.

Ultimately the Catholic Church (Orthodox and Roman Catholic) were born out error (and the same quest for power...as seen in Constantine's "conversion").

I think it more proper to say that the Church of Jesus Christ (other the "Bride") exists within Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant congregations - often despite rather than because of the churches as organizations.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus words in Scripture tell us this. If you believe Jesus, Peter will be your Shepherd.

No it does not

I am sorry my friend. I am done, If you can not be convinced by the word. I will never sway you.

If you want to blindly follow a church. feel free..

 

[Cathode]

The "primacy" claim of the Roman Catholic Church simply goes back to secular power. This is one thing I mean by mentioning the Book of Eli.

Ultimately the Catholic Church (Orthodox and Roman Catholic) were born out error (and the same quest for power...as seen in Constantine's "conversion").

I think it more proper to say that the Church of Jesus Christ (other the "Bride") exists within Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant congregations - often despite rather than because of the churches as organizations.

No. The pagan Roman power was killing Catholics for the first 300 years, every Pope was killed in Rome for the first 300 years, starting with Peter, crucified upside down under Nero and thrown on the garbage heap called Vatican Hill.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The "primacy" claim of the Roman Catholic Church simply goes back to secular power. This is one thing I mean by mentioning the Book of Eli.

Ultimately the Catholic Church (Orthodox and Roman Catholic) were born out error (and the same quest for power...as seen in Constantine's "conversion").

I think it more proper to say that the Church of Jesus Christ (other the "Bride") exists within Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant congregations - often despite rather than because of the churches as organizations.

look at the history of the roman church and the jews.. You will see they almost go step in step from having the truth, to following a lie

 

[JonC]

My church has a group of elders..

Then we have a group of pastors.

then we split into home groups (much smaller) and each of them have pastors and leaders.

I think the single pastor model has failed. and Jesus never called for us to do this.. as this has caused many a church to fall. when the man in charge gets decieved, he can take his whole church down with him

I think the reason the single pastor model fails is because churches tended to leave the governance of the congregation to the pastor (he controlled the church, kinda like a little pope).

Scripture calls for the congregation to choose from within a person to be an "overseer" ("pastor"). But we have to remember that God speaks through the congregation, gifts the congregation.

I do not like a group of pastors, or elders (I'm Baptist), or deacons as a leadership office. Im my experience having several pastors simply dilutes the problem rather than removing it. But perhaps it is the best way to represent the congregation, especially when the majority of the congregation is less active in the work of the ministry itself.

I don't have a good answer to what I see as potentially problematic.

We do have a senior pastor, a youth pastor, a college pastor....in the past they were called "ministers", which I preferred. Snd it is working well.....so what do I know?