Jesus entrusted His sheep to Peter, read Scripture.
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The Orthodox church has the seniority
- Thread starter rockytopva
- Start date
Jesus entrusted His sheep to Peter, read Scripture.
No you have been brainwashed by false prejudice.
The Catholic Church was always a step away from the truth. We have to remember that when the Catholic Church came into being there were Christians who were incorporated alongside pagans. It is that accommodation of pagan doctrine that kept them (as an organization) one breath away from the Way.
We see this other places as well....in. Jamaica, Louisiana, Celts, ... even now when secular politics and movements are blended with Christianity.
In the end the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church as a whole (the organizations) are Christian and pagan. But most Protestsnts are as well to some extent.
This is completely false. The Roman pagan state was totally against the Catholic Church, pagan Romans were incentivised to hunt Christians, by rewarding them with the property of Christians they discovered.
When Constantine legalised Christianity, part of the process of healing the rift was to give back an enormous amount of property to Christians if they survived.
What the time was more like was the 300 years of the English Protestant persecution of Catholics, killing Catholic priests and Bishops and lay people when convenient, and taking their property. Catholics were extremely secret, and discreet.
The Romans were far more severe however, this idea of melding of Christianity and paganry is a garbage fabrication, not born out by history.
What is born out in history is the lapsed who were terrified by martyrdom and recanted the Faith, but these were completely shunned from Christian churches until they repented. There was no melding of pagan and Christian, they were totally antithetical to each other.
Severe penance was inflicted on those lapsed when they repented.
Christian practice was a death sentence to any pagan if he was discovered trying it, the idea is stupid and not historical.
If i had to pick between Catholic and Othodox I would go Orthodox.
“Resting on the unshaken roots of the heavenly precepts, and strengthened by the evangelical traditions, the prescribed banishment, the destined tortures, the loss of property, the bodily punishments, have not terrified them.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, de lapsis 250 Ad.
Learn real history and accounts of the Roman persecutions, and you won’t be fooled by fabrications.
“Immediately at the first words of the threatening foe, the greatest number of the brethren betrayed their faith, and were cast down, not by the onset of persecution, but cast themselves down by voluntary lapse.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, 7 de lapsis 250 Ad.
Cyprian said most recanted the faith fearing the property loss before even being threatened with torture or death. How many today would do the same to save their house or retirement money? Let alone be tortured to death.
“But (say they) subsequently tortures had come, and severe sufferings were threatening those who resisted. He may complain of tortures who has been overcome by tortures; he may offer the excuse of suffering who has been vanquished in suffering. Such a one may ask, and say, I wished indeed to strive bravely, and, remembering my oath, I took up the arms of devotion and faith; but as I was struggling in the encounter, varied tortures and long-continued sufferings overcame me. My mind stood firm, and my faith was strong, and my soul struggled long, unshaken with the torturing pains; but when, with the renewed barbarity of the most cruel judge, wearied out as I was, the scourges were now tearing me, the clubs bruised me, the rack strained me, the claw dug into me, the fire roasted me; my flesh deserted me in the struggle, the weakness of my bodily frame gave way — not my mind, but my body, yielded in the suffering.
Such a plea may readily avail to forgiveness; an apology of that kind may excite compassion. Thus at one time the Lord forgave Castus and Aemilius; thus, overcome in the first encounter, they were made victors in the second battle. So that they who had formerly given way to the fires became stronger than the fires, and in that in which they had been vanquished they were conquerors. They entreated not for pity of their tears, but of their wounds; nor with a lamentable voice alone, but with laceration and suffering of body. Blood flowed instead of weeping; and instead of tears, gore poured forth from their half-scorched entrails.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, 13 de lapsis 250 Ad.
Cyprian talks of those that lapsed under severe torture, were taken back into the Church and the second time were martyred.
How were they forgiven? Confession to a priest.
“Moreover, how much are they both greater in faith and better in their fear, who, although bound by no crime of sacrifice to idols or of certificate, yet, since they have even thought of such things, with grief and simplicity confess this very thing to God's priests, and make the conscientious avowal, put off from them the load of their minds, and seek out the salutary medicine even for slight and moderate wounds, knowing that it is written, God is not mocked. Galatians 6:7 God cannot be mocked, nor deceived, nor deluded by any deceptive cunning.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, De lapsis 250 Ad.
Learn real history and accounts of the Roman persecutions, and you won’t be fooled by fabrications.
“Immediately at the first words of the threatening foe, the greatest number of the brethren betrayed their faith, and were cast down, not by the onset of persecution, but cast themselves down by voluntary lapse.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, 7 de lapsis 250 Ad.
Cyprian said most recanted the faith fearing the property loss before even being threatened with torture or death. How many today would do the same to save their house or retirement money? Let alone be tortured to death.
“But (say they) subsequently tortures had come, and severe sufferings were threatening those who resisted. He may complain of tortures who has been overcome by tortures; he may offer the excuse of suffering who has been vanquished in suffering. Such a one may ask, and say, I wished indeed to strive bravely, and, remembering my oath, I took up the arms of devotion and faith; but as I was struggling in the encounter, varied tortures and long-continued sufferings overcame me. My mind stood firm, and my faith was strong, and my soul struggled long, unshaken with the torturing pains; but when, with the renewed barbarity of the most cruel judge, wearied out as I was, the scourges were now tearing me, the clubs bruised me, the rack strained me, the claw dug into me, the fire roasted me; my flesh deserted me in the struggle, the weakness of my bodily frame gave way — not my mind, but my body, yielded in the suffering.
Such a plea may readily avail to forgiveness; an apology of that kind may excite compassion. Thus at one time the Lord forgave Castus and Aemilius; thus, overcome in the first encounter, they were made victors in the second battle. So that they who had formerly given way to the fires became stronger than the fires, and in that in which they had been vanquished they were conquerors. They entreated not for pity of their tears, but of their wounds; nor with a lamentable voice alone, but with laceration and suffering of body. Blood flowed instead of weeping; and instead of tears, gore poured forth from their half-scorched entrails.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, 13 de lapsis 250 Ad.
Cyprian talks of those that lapsed under severe torture, were taken back into the Church and the second time were martyred.
How were they forgiven? Confession to a priest.
“Moreover, how much are they both greater in faith and better in their fear, who, although bound by no crime of sacrifice to idols or of certificate, yet, since they have even thought of such things, with grief and simplicity confess this very thing to God's priests, and make the conscientious avowal, put off from them the load of their minds, and seek out the salutary medicine even for slight and moderate wounds, knowing that it is written, God is not mocked. Galatians 6:7 God cannot be mocked, nor deceived, nor deluded by any deceptive cunning.” Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 3, De lapsis 250 Ad.
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Eternally Grateful
Active Member
from the churches I belonged to. The pastor takes control. and I have witnessed him getting yes men.. who will not vote against him
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
I believe they are more than one step away
the jews had their laws. and claimed they were the means to eternal life.
the Catholics have their sacraments. and some even have purgatory just in case.
thats what I meant when I said they resembled each other..
they also use the same arguments
1. History
2. The priesthood (pope)
3. The traditions
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
except for the pope. what is really different?
I do not think it profitable to pray ro the saints. I also believe we can be a saint now. Prayer to the Father in Jesus name is the correct method of prayer. No more needed.
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
do you believe in the true flesh that gives eternal life (john 6). or the eucharist. who does not give anyone eternal life
I think this is one of the major flaws and false teachings found both in the catholic church, and I believe in orthodoxy. I believe also Lutherans and others teach this heresy?
Protestantism has more traditions than Catholics or Orthodox combined. But these are all human founded traditions of men based on human interpretations of Scripture and all in conflict with each other.
You don’t believe Jesus flesh is real food and blood is real drink, so you deny Jesus own words that say exactly that.
Our chief promotion is Christ and he crucified. Any other promotions causes me to worry.
That’s what the Eucharist is.
I attended one church where the pastor believed they should do something. He asked the congregation. They voted "no". He appreciated that and said that God speaks through the congregation. "They didn't do it.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has Eternal Life, and I will raise him up on the Last Day. “
It is Jesus flesh and blood that gives life and resurrection to our bodies our flesh and blood on the Last Day.
“ So he who eats me, will live because of Me “
“ My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. “
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, abides in me and I in him “
The Eucharist is a Covenant exchange of persons, we receive Jesus in us, and Jesus receives us in Him.
This the Holy and Everlasting Covenant feast of The Lamb.
“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. They deny this gift of God are perishing” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).
“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).
Eternally Grateful
Active Member
Yes I do
Whoever eats will never die
You don’t because you believe you can eat and still die
Study John 6. Or continue to listen to men
Jesus promised resurrection because of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. So your mortal body must die to be resurrected to eternal life. You don’t eat His flesh and drink His blood, you have a symbolic understanding.
Jesus didn’t say His flesh and blood was symbolic food and symbolic drink.
Jesus said “ My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. “
“ Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you “
“ Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my Words will never pass away “
Stand on Jesus Word, nothing is surer. Believe.