The Orthodox church has the seniority

[JonC]

@rockytopva has a better point than I think comes out here.

The Catholic Church (here, Greek Orthodox that came into being when Christianity became a mandated religion for the Roman Empire) IS the oldest of its kind. It is the first church of that type. ANY Church of this kind that followed is a denomination.

Prior to the development of the Catholic Church each congregation was considered a seperate church. Each congregation choose from within a pastor ("overseer"). Each congregation viewed Christ as its "head".

This is why we can rightly say that Baptists, Anabaptists, "non-denominational" churches, etc....all are "non-denominational....are centuries older than the Orthodox Greek Church. We are often a different type.

 

[JonC]

Lets see

the churches of rome. to who Paul wrote the letter to the romans

The church in corinth

the church in ephesus.

there were many churches before the roman catholic church started sometime in the 3rd century

Yes....that is exactly what I said.

Those churches were not denominational. They were churches founded by God's Wird and the gospel of Christ rather than a governing body.

 

[rockytopva]

If it were not for us Protestants would any be allowed to read the scripture? "Up until the mid-twentieth Century, the custom of reading the Bible and interpreting it for oneself was a hallmark of the Protestant churches springing up in Europe after the Reformation. Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves. Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture. " - Changes in Catholic Attitudes Toward Bible Readings

 

[JonC]

And out of the reformation came the King James Bible... In which i believe God blessed the UK greatly for.

A strange part of the Reformation (the KJV was Anglican, it came about because Henry VIII wanted his marriage annulled and the king declared himself the supreme head of the church).

Every other reformer wanted to change what they saw as error. The KJV owes its existance to a king who wanted to be pope.

But I agree that God used thos in a great way.

 

[Cathode]

Yes....that is exactly what I said.

Those churches were not denominational. They were churches founded by God's Wird and the gospel of Christ rather than a governing body.

They were not denominational, you are right, they were Catholic however.

“while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

And there definitely was a governing body. Irenaeus points it out, he points to Rome.

“Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:3:2 (A.D. 180).

“For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority“

 

[rockytopva]

I believe at one time the scripture was only read in Latin. Thankfully since then I am able to possess a King James Bible with Hebrew and Greek concordances.

 

[Cathode]

A strange part of the Reformation (the KJV was Anglican, it came about because Henry VIII wanted his marriage annulled and the king declared himself the supreme head of the church).

Every other reformer wanted to change what they saw as error. The KJV owes its existance to a king who wanted to be pope.

But I agree that God used thos in a great way.

Every Bible aloner declares himself supreme head of the Church when he subjects scriptures to his opinion.

 

[Cathode]

I believe at one time the scripture was only read in Latin. Thankfully since then I am able to possess a King James Bible with Hebrew and Greek concordances.

No, there were many vernacular Bibles long before the KJV, Luther even used the high German bible to assist with his butchering translation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ The Good Shepherd would not entrust His sheep and lambs to anyone but Peter in Scripture.

He trusted it to Paul.. And he trusted it to all 11 and others..

He told them to make disciples of others.. thats what our job is.

Peter was mouthpiece of the Eternal Father, was the visible Shepherd of Christ’s Church entrusted by Jesus Himself before He ascended into Heaven.

This is not found in scripture

But in any case. Peter wrote three books. how many did paul write?

Jesus called Simon Rock, not small stone as false teachers say. Why? Because we know this from Scripture when Peter is called “Cephas” which means large Rock in Hebrew. He was never called “ Evna “ small stone.

Jesus said, and I call you peter " in the greek. the word is "petros"

And on this rock (Petra) I will build my church

He did not say on you I will build my church

He said on this rock

what is the rock? the foundation is himself. You are the Christ, the son of the living God

This is the twisting of the false teachers that have deluded you, and brainwashed you in error.

Or maybe you were brainwashed. and do not understand the difference between petra (small stone) and Petra (large boulder)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When did Paul go and preach to the Gentiles before Peter first brought them into the Church?

Nothing.

Paul was prophesied to go out to the Gentiles, but didn’t do anything until after Peter had first brought them into the Church.

You need to study the scripture, and overcome the brainwashing of human traditions.

lol

Peter spoke to A GENTILE family IN JUDEA

Paul was sent to the GENTILE NATIONS.

My friend. if you want to build your case. It would be better if you actually studied and under

 

[37818]

No there are 7 letters which are considered genuine, of which I quoted for you.

Most scholars accept the letters are genuine.

And it is my understanding they are not authentic.

 

[JonC]

Yes sadly

the reformation caused a great re-awakening. But sadly some brought many of the doctrines with her

They certainly did. But I think this was to be expected. The Reformers were Catholic. It would be impossible for them to simoly start with Scripture as they were deeply Catholic. They could only address what stood out to them as error while not addressing errors they took for granted.

I also believe they made a mistake by trying to correct error in the existing doctrine (trying to bring the existing doctrine closer to Scripture) rather than simply starting with God's Word. But I was not there, and perhaps that was not possible for them in that environment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. Same Catholic Church but different locations.

Nope. again, they would hold the same doctrines. The catholic church does not

“And if ever thou art sojourning in cities, inquire not simply where the Lord’s House is (for the other sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens houses of the Lord), nor merely where the Church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of this Holy Church, the mother of us all, which is the spouse of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Only-begotten Son of God.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 18:23,26 (A.D. 350).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes....that is exactly what I said.

Those churches were not denominational. They were churches founded by God's Wird and the gospel of Christ rather than a governing body.

yes

God has no denomination. However. his church consists of denominations (who have the same gospel)

wish we would get back to city churches.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If it were not for us Protestants would any be allowed to read the scripture? "Up until the mid-twentieth Century, the custom of reading the Bible and interpreting it for oneself was a hallmark of the Protestant churches springing up in Europe after the Reformation. Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves. Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture. " - Changes in Catholic Attitudes Toward Bible Readings

once the roman empire and church lost its power. nothing would stop it.

its not a protestant thing, it is in my view a God thing

 

[JonC]

I believe at one time the scripture was only read in Latin. Thankfully since then I am able to possess a King James Bible with Hebrew and Greek concordances.

Not only that....we can read God's Word in the current English vernacular and we have so many language tools (we also have Greek and Hebrew texts with parallel English translations).

I like Bible software. I can read a passage in the KJV, NASB, and NIV (typically I use these three) and click on a word to get the Greek.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They were not denominational, you are right, they were Catholic however.

Not in the way you think

“while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

And there definitely was a governing body. Irenaeus points it out, he points to Rome.

“Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:3:2 (A.D. 180).

“For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority“

lol. Show me cathedrals in the book of Acts.

Show me people taking a eucharistic offering in the book of acts

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe at one time the scripture was only read in Latin. Thankfully since then I am able to possess a King James Bible with Hebrew and Greek concordances.

yes, in the roman church.. they had to keep people from reading a bible it would expose them as frauds.

 

[Cathode]

He trusted it to Paul.. And he trusted it to all 11 and others..

He told them to make disciples of others.. thats what our job is.

Peter is specifically and explicitly given charge of Jesus flock by Jesus Himself.

This is not found in scripture

Yes it is. “ It was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven “

Peter had another guiding revelation direct from Heaven.

“I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners”

Jesus said, and I call you peter " in the greek. the word is "petros"

And on this rock (Petra) I will build my church

He did not say on you I will build my church

He said on this rock

what is the rock? the foundation is himself. You are the Christ, the son of the living God

Or maybe you were brainwashed. and do not understand the difference between petra (small stone) and Petra (large boulder)

Jesus wasn’t speaking Greek, He spoke Aramaic and called Simon Kepha, Rock , Cephas in Hebrew, these mean large Rock.

The Greek has masculine and feminine delineation, and had to be translated Petros for the masculine addressee. The writer could not call Peter Petrina.

Peter being called Cephas and not evna, means Jesus was calling Peter Rock. And it is first person singular.
“ You are Kepha and on this Kepha I will build my Church “

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Every Bible aloner declares himself supreme head of the Church when he subjects scriptures to his opinion.

lol. You are following your church well..