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No the P in the calvernist/ Augustine scheme has to have a person showing a continued progression of works and holiness , enduring to the end till final salvation to be saved . the only difference between that and Arminism is that if your elect its God that does this and you cannot jump ship. Both systems rely on works as evidence . Rather I believe Eternal security is that once you believe you are sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption.
Yes but I'm talking about how the Calvernist ( John piper/ washer / Sproul/ White / MacArther / explain The P .
Which I'm contending leads to despair, doubt and works. Why ? because you can never know from the bible that you are one of the ( Augustines) elect ( frozen chosen ) unless your persevering in good works. just like Calvernist off shoot Armianism it's your works that is the focus.
Every Calvinist misunderstands Calvinism. Only you, an anti-Calvinist, can properly explain it. That's the argument.
The P is based on the U . Election is the basis for the P . This is not eternal security. This is ' how do I know I'm elect ' . Many a famous Calvernist on their deathbed doubted there salvation ( election) because of 'lack of fruit bearing.
Notice nothing there about being sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption. Nor receiving eternal life . The above is just a bait and switch. All it's simply saying as the Arminian would agree that it is God who is doing the work in you . Using such things as the ' warning passages ' to keep his elect .Every Calvinist misunderstands Calvinism. Only you, an anti-Calvinist, can properly explain it. That's the argument.
R.C. Sproul on Perseverance of the Saints
"This brings us to the P in TULIP. I’m sure you’ll be delighted to know that I’m not going to change this letter. The letter stands for the “perseverance of the saints.” However, even though I’m not changing the letter, I’m going to change the word. I think the catchphrase, perseverance of the saints, is dangerously misleading because it suggests that the persevering is something that we do, perhaps in and of ourselves.
I believe, of course, that saints do persevere in faith, and that those who have been effectually called by God and reborn by the power of the Holy Spirit endure to the end. They do persevere, but not simply because they are so diligent in making use of the mercies of God. The only reason we can give for why we continue in the faith until the last day is not because we have persevered so much, but because we have been preserved.
So, I prefer the term preservation of the saints because this process by which we are kept in a state of grace is something accomplished by God."
so far I've not seen a calvernist explain the P without leaning on Election ( The calvernist version of Election .Thus proving The P is based on the Election of Augustine.
Kept in a state of Grace ? why not sealed by the Holy spirit until the day of redemption.Every Calvinist misunderstands Calvinism. Only you, an anti-Calvinist, can properly explain it. That's the argument.
R.C. Sproul on Perseverance of the Saints
"This brings us to the P in TULIP. I’m sure you’ll be delighted to know that I’m not going to change this letter. The letter stands for the “perseverance of the saints.” However, even though I’m not changing the letter, I’m going to change the word. I think the catchphrase, perseverance of the saints, is dangerously misleading because it suggests that the persevering is something that we do, perhaps in and of ourselves.
I believe, of course, that saints do persevere in faith, and that those who have been effectually called by God and reborn by the power of the Holy Spirit endure to the end. They do persevere, but not simply because they are so diligent in making use of the mercies of God. The only reason we can give for why we continue in the faith until the last day is not because we have persevered so much, but because we have been preserved.
So, I prefer the term preservation of the saints because this process by which we are kept in a state of grace is something accomplished by God."
Anti Calvernist? no I just support the bible .
Every Calvinist misunderstands Calvinism. Only you, an anti-Calvinist, can properly explain it. That's the argument.
The only difference I can see by' kept in a state of grace ' in calvernism v Catholicism is that in Catholicism they believe you can fall from a state of grace . The calvernist has to conclude such a person must have not been an elect person all along ( of course allowing for some measure of sin and stumbling )
Knowing God intimately requires being indwelt, but the lost can Know things about God (and God in the Flesh) as indicated by Matthew 9:6. Mark 2:10
There is a difference.
Somehow the issue, chosen for salvation, was not addressed. But I hold a similar view, I thing the "beginning" refers to the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood. No one was set apart in Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) until after Christ died.
Strawman argument.
We have already been adopted and are right now children of God, just awaiting the glorification stage to complete us!