The pagan roots of Easter

[Adonia]

It turned into a idol to the people and they were worshipping it, something that is a abomination to God.

Ezekiel 14:6
Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

So what's your point with all this? You do not live in a vacuum and the roots of paganism are all over the place starting with the month and day of your birth. So, should we then assume that you really are a pagan?

 

[Calminian]

Apparently, you skipped over the definition of the word "Pray" that I pasted from Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
Do you have a better, more complete definition?

Did you see the 135 Scripture references I presented that show Christ Himself praying to people??
Perhaps, you should read the post again . . .

I would suggest you go by the Bible and not Webster in this case. We're dealing the the hebrew and greek words for pray, not the modern english word. proseuchomai, - to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship.

Yes, you plastered a bunch of verses with no explanation. I didn't see the one about it being no problem to pray to anyone but God. I don't think it exists.

 

[MarysSon]

I would suggest you go by the Bible and not Webster in this case. We're dealing the the hebrew and greek words for pray, not the modern english word. proseuchomai, - to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship.
Yes, you plastered a bunch of verses with no explanation. I didn't see the one about it being no problem to pray to anyone but God. I don't think it exists.

Funny you should say that because I haven't seen the verse that says you cannot pray to anybody BUT God.
Can YOU show it to me? Chapter and Verse, please . . .

While you're at it, maybe you can furnish us with your credentials, showing how YOU are more of a linguistic authority than Merriam Webster . . .

 

[Walpole]

Arguments for the most part are incoherent. Usually they'll plaster up a verse with no explanation. I'd say it's more of an emotional response than rational one.

...Or simply control-v paste a large swath of fallacious history.

 

[MarysSon]

I would suggest you go by the Bible and not Webster in this case. We're dealing the the hebrew and greek words for pray, not the modern english word. proseuchomai, - to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship.

Yes, you plastered a bunch of verses with no explanation. I didn't see the one about it being no problem to pray to anyone but God. I don't think it exists.

Sooooo, I took your advice and went to Strong's Greek Concordance and Lexicon to find the Biblical definition of the word "Pray" and found the SAME definition as Merriam Webster's Dictionary:

To supplicate (ask)
To worship

So - the Biblical and Dictionary definitions are in agreement - and Jesus DID pray to people in the following 135 verses:

(Matt. 5:46, Matt. 5:47, Matt. 6:27, Matt. 6:28, Matt. 7:3, Matt. 7:16, Matt. 8:26, Matt. 9:4, Matt. 9:5, Matt. 9:15, Matt. 9:28, Matt. 11:7, Matt. 11:16, Matt. 12:11, Matt. 12:29, Matt. 12:34, Matt. 12:48, Matt. 14:31, Matt. 15:3, Matt. 15:34, Matt. 16:9, Matt. 16:13, Matt. 16:15, Matt. 16:26, Matt. 17:17, Matt. 17:25, Matt. 18:12, Matt. 19:17, Matt. 20:21, Matt. 20:22, Matt. 20:32, Matt. 21:25, Matt. 21:28, Matt. 21:42, Matt. 22:18, Matt. 22:42, Matt. 23:17-19, Matt. 23:33, Matt. 26:10, Matt. 26:40, Matt. 26:53, Matt. 26:54, Matt. 26:55, Matt. 27:46, Mark 2:8, Mark 4:21, Mark 4:30, Mark 4:40, Mark 5:9, Mark 5:30, Mark 5:39, Mark 7:18, Mark 7:18, Mark 8:12, Mark 8:17-18, Mark 8:19, Mark 8:20, Mark 8:21, Mark 8:23, Mark 9:12, Mark 9:33, Mark 9:50, Mark 10:3, Mark 10:18, Mark 10:51, Mark 12:15, Mark 13:2, Mark 14:37, Mark 14:37, Luke 2:49, Luke 2:49, Luke 5:22, Luke 5:23, Luke 6:46, Luke 8:25, Luke 8:30, Luke 8:45, Luke 10:15, Luke 10:26, Luke 10:36, Luke 11:40, Luke 12:14-15, Luke 12:25, Luke 12:57, Luke 14:31, Luke 14:34, Luke 15:4, Luke 15:8, Luke 16:11, Luke 17:17, Luke 18:7, Luke 18:8, Luke 22:27, Luke 22:46, Luke 23:31, Luke 24:17, Luke 24:19, Luke 24:26, Luke 24:38, Luke 24:41, John 1:38, John 2:4, John 3:10, John 3:12, John 4:7, John 5:6, John 5:44, John 5:47, John 6:5, John 6:61, John 6:62, John 6:67, John 6:70, John 7:19, John7:19, John 7:23, John 8:10, John 8:43, John 8:46, John 8:46, John 10:36, John 11:9, John 11:26, John 11:33, John 13:12, John 14:9, John 18:4,7, John 18:11, John 18:34, John 18:21, John 18:23, John 20:15, John 21:5, John 21:17, John 21:22)

 

[robycop3]

I think you're missing the point. You are claiming that origins of symbols are very important and should never be christianized, and for that matter, can never be christianized. To be consistent, you'd have to give up a lot of things, including the Cross.

The problem is, you've not given a compelling biblical argument as to why something can never be christianized—why a symbol of old cannot be given new meaning. I see nothing in Scripture prohibiting this.

Well, actually, that wasn't my argument. I was defending the proper observance of Easter as a celebration of Jesus' resurrection. Doubtlessly, Easter was once a pagan observance, but not now.

 

[robycop3]

And MY point is that some of the things that pagans just happened to do before the age of Christianity, doesn't mean that Christians GOT these practices from pagans and "Christianized" them as YOU falsely assert.

Pagans drank water before the age of Christianity. Does that mean that drinking water is a "pagan" practice that we adopted??
How about sleeping or eating??

Your position is nonsense.

No, YOURS is. You're denying proven history.

 

[MarysSon]

No, YOURS is. You're denying proven history.

I'me not "denying" anything.
I'm simply not inventing rubbish like YOU are.

If a pagan picked his nose prior to the dawn of Christianity - YOU give them the credit for having invented nose-picking.
That's an idiotic standard.
Not everything that Early Christians did that had similarities to pagan practices were adopted from paganism. Some are mere coincidence.

For example - your whole "Dagon/Fish worship" nonsense had NOTHING to do with the Christian ICTHUS (fish symbol) or the Bishops mitres. One of the origins is said to be a reference to the multiplication of the loaves and fishes. The simple "fish" insignia was a secret code for the Early Church that was under persecution. It would let people know that there were Christians in the community and where they would meet.

Your conspiracy theories are as silly as references to extraterrestrials at Area 51 or "fake" moon landings . . .

 

[Calminian]

Funny you should say that because I haven't seen the verse that says you cannot pray to anybody BUT God.
Can YOU show it to me? Chapter and Verse, please . . .

While you're at it, maybe you can furnish us with your credentials, showing how YOU are more of a linguistic authority than Merriam Webster . . .

No, but Greek and Hebrew lexicons are more authoritative on Greek and Hebrew words. Even the Webster publishers agree with this.

Just out of curiosity, who else are you praying to? What are you asking them for? and Why do you think they are better choices than God?

 

[Calminian]

Funny you should say that because I haven't seen the verse that says you cannot pray to anybody BUT God.
Can YOU show it to me? Chapter and Verse, please . . .

Let's start with the issue of necromancy.

Deut. 18:10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.​

I'm guessing that you are praying to dead people? I'm curious what you think they can do for you that God cannot? Shouldn't you instead pray to God?

Is. 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquired of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?​

So I ask you? Why consult the dead? What possibly would make the dead a better choice than God?

 

[Dave G]

Funny you should say that because I haven't seen the verse that says you cannot pray to anybody BUT God.
Can YOU show it to me? Chapter and Verse, please . . .

" Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God." ( Philippians 4:6, AV ).
" Be nothing solicitous; but in every thing, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God." ( Philippians 4:6, Douay-Rheims ).

In everything let your requests be made known to God.
It doesn't say "men", "saints that are passed on", or "Mary".
It says "God".

Should that not be enough, sir?

 

[Walter]

" Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God." ( Philippians 4:6, AV ).
" Be nothing solicitous; but in every thing, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God." ( Philippians 4:6, Douay-Rheims ).

In everything let your requests be made known to God.
It doesn't say "men", "saints that are passed on", or "Mary".
It says "God".

Should that not be enough, sir?

Then be sure to never ever ask anyone to pray for you about anyting.

 

[Calminian]

Then be sure to never ever ask anyone to pray for you about anyting.

Wow, that is a bizarre response. Why would equate prayer with asking for prayer?

You don't know the difference between praying to someone, and asking someone to pray to God for you?

 

[MarysSon]

No, but Greek and Hebrew lexicons are more authoritative on Greek and Hebrew words. Even the Webster publishers agree with this.

Just out of curiosity, who else are you praying to? What are you asking them for? and Why do you think they are better choices than God?

Strong's IS a Greek lexicon - and the definition of "pray" is the same as Webster's Dictionary.

As for who I am asking for prayers from - I ask members of the Body of Christ to pray for me - just like every Protestant does.
Why would you think that this would negate my praying directly to God??
Why is it okay for Protestants to ask people to pray for them AND pray directly to God - but NOT Catholics??

 

[Calminian]

Strong's IS a Greek lexicon - and the definition of "pray" is the same as Webster's Dictionary.....

Here's the definition found in Strong's.

proseu/comai proseuchomai, pros-yoo´-khom-ahee; from 4314 and 2172; to pray to God, i.e. supplicate, worship: — pray (x earnestly, for), make prayer.

Worship! That's what is says.

 

[MarysSon]

Let's start with the issue of necromancy.

Deut. 18:10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.​

I'm guessing that you are praying to dead people? I'm curious what you think they can do for you that God cannot? Shouldn't you instead pray to God?

Is. 8:19 When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquired of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?​

So I ask you? Why consult the dead? What possibly would make the dead a better choice than God?

Your ignorance is astounding.
I have covered this multiple times already.

The prohibition in Deuteronomy is against Necromancy. Necromancy is not about asking a saint in Heaven to pray for you.
Necromancy is seeking oracles/information FROM the dead. That's what "consulting the dead" means.

 

[Calminian]

....As for who I am asking for prayers from - I ask members of the Body of Christ to pray for me - just like every Protestant does.

Asking someone to pray for you is not the same as praying to them. Surely you understand this.

 

[Calminian]

Your ignorance is astounding.
I have covered this multiple times already.

The prohibition in Deuteronomy is against Necromancy. Necromancy is not about asking a saint in Heaven to pray for you.
Necromancy is seeking oracles/information FROM the dead. That's what "consulting the dead" means.

Yes, but asking someone to pray is not the same as praying to. So long as you're not asking people who have already passed on, you're fine.

Starting to wonder if you're just playing games now.

 

[Calminian]

It ALSO says SUPPLICATE, which means "ASK".

You can't be this dense . . .

Yes, and it also means to worship. Prayer is not exactly the same as asking. Surely you understand this.

 

[MarysSon]

Yes, but asking someone to pray is not the same as praying to. So long as you're not asking people who have already passed on, you're fine.

Starting to wonder if you're just playing games now.

But it is NOT necromancy - so your entire argument just went out the window;

Now - as soon as YOU can show me a passage of Scripture that states ALL those in Heaven have been kicked out of the Body of Christ - you might be able to defend your ignorant statement in RED . . .