Clearly the reason why the Puritans sailed across the pond...
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The pagan roots of Easter
- Thread starter Hobie
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it was just too much for them...
"Why would we ask the dead to pray for us?"
Okay so when you die WHERE DO YOU GO? The Grave? HELL?
Don't tell me heaven because everyone in heaven is MORE ALIVE then we are.
Philippians 1
21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. 25Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, 26so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.
27Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Paul says if he depart, absent, he desires to be with Christ. That its much better there. EVEN if he is "GONE" He would still remain and continue with you all for YOUR PROGRESS and Joy in the faith.
"conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ"
"so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit,"
How is he going to hear about anything if he is dead?
21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. 25Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, 26so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.
27Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Paul says if he depart, absent, he desires to be with Christ. That its much better there. EVEN if he is "GONE" He would still remain and continue with you all for YOUR PROGRESS and Joy in the faith.
"conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ"
"so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit,"
How is he going to hear about anything if he is dead?
Oh no, I think that they believe in the "communion of saints", but probably only in the context of those still on this earth. If we are not all gathered together in heaven in communion, then where do we all go? It would seem to me that common sense tells us that the term "communion of saints" means any individual who believes in Christ - whether here on earth or with him in heaven.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
...Which shows the ridiculousness of using another religion's creeds and Scriptures to start your own religion. The proper understanding of the communion of saints, by those whose doctrine it is, is evidenced by simply looking at the early Church's liturgies and architecture. In Christianity there is an old axiom which states lex orandi, lex credendi.
The Church's earliest altars were built over the tombs of her saints. The Church's earliest liturgies invoke the saints to pray for us. The Church's earliest liturgical calendars included commemoration of the saints and martyrs.
"...I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." (Rev. 6:9)
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Ditto, sorry if my reaction seemed like an attack. Having been here for years, I have seen thread after thread, on a subject that undercuts our celebration of our Lord's resurrection, for "He is risen, He is risen indeed..."
All that was rejected by people who had a new revelation from God don't you know. The revelations kept right on coming - from Luther to Calvin to Zwingli to Smyth to White to Russell to Smith. Yes sir, they kept right on a coming!
Indeed false teaching and oppression by false teachers was too much...
No new revelation. In fact, less than Rome claims.
God rejected Rome and it's false representation of His Holiness. He continues to reject Rome until it repents and reforms in conformity with God's declared word in the Bible.
You have been shown the error of purgatory, indulgences, infant baptism transubstantiation and works salvation. You have no excuse.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Are you actually arguing the Puritans fled because they thought calling magistrates "my worship" was oppressive and a false teaching?
Can you please substantiate that? I trust you but would just like to see some evidence.
Nope, I am arguing that the Church at Rome and the Church of England do silly things that are still seen in England. I am arguing that sometimes it is better to just leave.
Now YOU are speaking for God? Pray bother, isn't that getting a little bit in front of your skis? I would say that statement is the very definition of the Yiddish word "chutzpah".
Walpole
Well-Known Member
FYI, British magistrates are civil servants, not clerics.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
That may be possible, but we would not be alone in our need of help in grasping "rudimentary English"!
You claimed that Jesus was praying to people (which is silly given the basic concept of prayer as a supplication to God). In all of the verses I presented, Jesus was praying. In many of the verses I presented, it specifically states that Jesus was alone to pray, so he could not have been praying to a person (telepathy aside). In many other verses that I presented, it explicitly identifies God (the Father) as the one to whom Jesus is praying ... and God the Father is NOT A PERSON, He is GOD. In NONE of the verses where Jesus was praying did Jesus pray TO a person; although Jesus did at times pray FOR a person.
So why don't you go back and reread your comment and my response and see if you can comprehend the English scriptures and stop making foolish claims that just "taint so".
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
Christians believe God is a Trinity of Persons. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three distinct Persons.
I am speaking from observation. No, it's actually seeing reality and scripture rather than relying on my church to be my mirror.
Oh I see, so you do not follow the doctrines of John Smyth, the founder of your sect? Grape juice and crackers, your idea or the church's idea? The pulpit as the center point of your worship service, your idea or the church's?
Your answers will tell us all we need to know about your church and if it's your mirror or not.
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