Featured The Parenthesis Church

Not really looking to get involved in the thread as I don't have much time to be here. However with your last post OldR.. I find this an interesting point.. " No important element of instruction was omitted as Christ prepared his own for what was ahead. He made it clear that there would be delay. in establishing the kingdom. Even though he knew what would happen he made a bona fide offer of the kingdom according to prophecy"

Interestingly enough in Acts 1:3 we see this:

Here we see that after the resurrection, for 40 days, he was speaking to his chosen disciples of the "things pertaining to the Kingdom of God".

Then we see Jesus tell them to go to Jerusalem and wait for the the Holy Spirit and the baptism thereof.

Watch what happens Next:

So, after Jesus spent the last 40 days teaching these disciples about the Kingdom of God (what it was, is, and will come to pass)... we see the disciples come to him and ask - when he will RESTORE -again- the Kingdom to Israel.

Now just for clarification sake, I'm using the KJV here (just easier) and the word 'again' is used though technically not in the original manuscripts. However the term 'restore' establishes that the word 'again' not can but used but in fact should be used giving greater and a more full clarification of what 'restore' is implying. Therefore no matter whether it is 'restore' or 'restore again' it is the same in meaning.

It is of importance here to note what they were asking, in light of the fact that the last 40 days, they were under Jesus specific teachings which specifically was pertaining to the Kingdom of God. And then we see the disciples ask - when he would -restore again- the Kingdom TO Israel.

To 'restore again', is hugely significant and means that at one time it existed but either has been take away or become so weak and without power it is no longer has authority and has another ruler over it. Now the question is, what is it that will be 'again' that no longer was or has become weak and powerless and lame.. the Kingdom of Israel. And the fact they asked when 'HE" was going to restore it, coincided with the OT prophesies regarding the Messiah.

On this a unique question must be asked.. Who is Israel?
Well, if it is the Church.. then you have a very large biblical problem because according to this passage the Kingdom was either taken away from the Church or that the Kingdom had become weak and retched and another OTHER than God had taken control, therefore needed Jesus to restore it AGAIN - or bring it back into being because in either case - it no longer truly existed.

If it is literal national Israel.. well we find biblical continuity and don't have the Kingdom being taken away from the Church and asking when He will restore it again to us.

Anyway.. since we 'know' the Kingdom of God has never been removed and that it was NOTat any time no longer in existence (whether literally or in a weakened state and the rule was usurped) , we know that this was speaking NOT of spiritual Israel often called the church but of literal physical Israel.

Now in relation to this question some try to state that Jesus did not answer them because their question was not correct - but we find in fact not only did He answer them, but He answered them specifically regarding the question they posed in the affirmative. In other words, their question was a correct one but their focus or better what they should be focused upon was not.

See:

Note He DOES address their question.. it is not for you to know when the Father will do so. Again, note this.. He did not deny their question, nor did He tell them they misunderstood, or that they are asking the wrong question, No, His answer was in agreement with the question posed but was refocusing them on what they should be more concerned with. Why? Because that (restoring the Kingdom to Israel) is the Father's business. In other words - Don't get caught up on when the Father will accomplish what He promised..

In vss 8 He then goes on to tell them what they ARE to be concerned about.. to be His witnesses everywhere. Basically telling them - The Father will bring to pass what is His to worry about. You however need to worry about the tasks that you have been placed in charge of.

Just on Acts 1 alone, there is no dispute that Jesus taught of a literal physical Kingdom of Israel HE will re-establish. We know this because the disciples wanted to know when He was planning on 'restoring again' the Kingdom to Israel.

We also know this not only because of scripture (and in more than just that one place) but also because of the early church fathers, and we know that one of these was most likely if not actually one of Johns (the writer of Revelation) disciples. And he is noted for teaching this very same view. Justin Martyr (one of the early church fathers) is noted as stating this is/was the orthodox teaching of the church during his time (a literal Kingdom to Isreal from which Christ Jesus would reign). Thus the earliest works we have of disciples of Christ (scripture) as well as those who were taught by His disciple's disciples (giving further proof of what they wrote meant) state this was the common consistent and upheld teachings of the church for the first 450'ish years.

What needs to be recongnized is they asked if Jesus was going to RESTORE AGAIN the Kingdom TO Israel, meaning to bring back permanently what no longer existed.

 

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.


46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.

51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.

52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

 

care to deal with passage I gave and address it?
I have a firm grasp of the above passage you give and can go into with you but first, IF (and I mean that because I'm not sure who you are stating this to) it is in response to my post.. please deal my passage of scripture and why the KINGDOM must be RESTORED - TO - Israel.

Especially in light of what the term 'restored' speaks to (which helps us know who the Israel is being spoken of)

 

Everything you need to know about the poster OldRegular is spelled out in post #79 in this related thread... http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=80543&page=8

 

Your making this a personal crusade against another brother..... no matter how right or wrong he may be, now its becoming personal. Ive seen this in the other post about "The Tongue". By doing this my brother, your loosing your Christian perspective....dont do that!

 

I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with you in principle. However, I'm a conservative evangelical who holds the Bible in high regard and while willing to endure a certain amount of non-sense in the name of family harmony there is a limit. So if I offend anyone I appologize but sitting on my hands is getting old.

 

So you will become offensive in your interpretation of theological issues? Personally Id let the other guy do that & throw him off balance by my own calm presentation of issues. I only say that for your benefit because the other guy in this case is exposing himself very negatively lately. To emulate him achieves nothing but hostility & resentment.

Did you both not achieve some degree of agreement about things when you visited the Chik-Fil-A joint (LOL)!:laugh:

 

Are you are in agreement with my dear mother who would say that you can attract more bees with honey than vinegar?

 

important that Jesus did NOT state they were wrong about Kingdom restoring to isreal, but that it was up to the fathers time, and the mission now was for the coming Holy Spriit to have the Church birthed and going forth!

 

satan will be bound, and no longer to even tempt the saints, nor work among the earth...

When did this happen?

 

The isolation of texts here and there, is the problem here.

 

All of the above is pretty, pulled from here and there.. but please deal with the post I have given.

 

OR posted this:

"Satan is bound now according to according to Scripture. He will be cast into the lake of fire when Jesus Christ returns! "

Please show me the scripture that says Satan is bound now. In the meantime, I will show you scripture that says he is not.

1 Peter 5:8 (ESV)
8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Ephesians 6:10-12 (ESV)
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.