....and you stand with the majority on this Amy, of course:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=73340&highlight=bound
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=73340&highlight=bound
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For anyone to think that we are presently living in the Kingdom (the millennium) is just unbelievable to me. Our world is dominated by evil and darkness. Just watch the news. The devil is still prowling around seeking those whom he can devour. He is certainly not bound.
For anyone to think that we are presently living in the Kingdom (the millennium) is just unbelievable to me. Our world is dominated by evil and darkness. Just watch the news. The devil is still prowling around seeking those whom he can devour. He is certainly not bound.
Still trying to see how ome casn view as NOW in the Millinium reign of Christ, with NO change on the conditions here on earth since his acension?
Tom
You and I will disagree on the Second Coming but your response to Amy. G in the above post is well said!
Thanks, OR. I am aware of the disagreements, and that they have always been agreeable disagreements, if you know what I mean.
Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
This is presently taking place in the world. The church is being called out to rule with Christ when he comes to sit on the throne of his glory. The prophets agreed that this would take place, that is the calling out a people for his name from among the Gentiles/heathen. They will not rule with him until after their resurrection. Jesus calls this the age to come in Luke 20 and the same time period he calls following him in the regeneration in Matthew 19:28.
I would think that Acts 15:16 is speaking of this same time period. After this. that is after he has called out a people for his name he will return and rebuild the house of David which is fallen down, that is the throne of David, the throne of Christ's glory. There is going have to be someone to rule over.
Verse 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
It appears to me that people will be able to come to the Lord at this time. Notice they seek not only the Lord but the Lord and the people called for his name. What do kings do? What do priests do? Will this be a time of proper education? I think an interesting thought is what order will these priest be after. Melchisedec or Levi? Where will Satan be at this time? What will he be doing relative to the residue of mankind?
Will the residue of mankind be marrying and having children at this time?
What about those ruling with Christ?
For anyone to think that we are presently living in the Kingdom (the millennium) is just unbelievable to me. Our world is dominated by evil and darkness. Just watch the news. The devil is still prowling around seeking those whom he can devour. He is certainly not bound.
Thanks, OR. I am aware of the disagreements, and that they have always been agreeable disagreements, if you know what I mean.
Don't believe him, Brother Tom!! I have seen him curse you to your back. He has used the unfavorable curse words, "fish paste", and "tartar sauce", so be wary of him......be veeerrryyy wary of him.......:laugh: J/K Brother O.R.
We are presently living in the Kingdom because God's Word says we are. You can watch the news all you want, but that will not improve your insight at all into what the Kingdom actually is, the nature of it. There are several passages that can be adduced to show that Christ is reigning in His kingdom now.
Neither do I buy into the already/not yet framework. I used to believe in it - right up until the very last seeming Scriptural support for the doctrine was kicked out from under my previous paradigm.
The devil - the adversary - of I Peter has had his last meal almost 2000 years ago. He has since, according to Revelation, been bound, no longer able to deceive the nations. Christ, in the Apocalyptic vision, binds Satan. But, according to Gospel usage, it is also correct to say that Christians bound him, as they went throughout the Empire, using their Christ-given keys of authority.
I underlined a part in Peter's verse because the verse is almost always quoted as a snippet, as if the emphasis was on curtailment of power, rather than cessation of doctrinal and spiritual opposition. It is because of this binding that the Gospel leaven was able to permeate the entire dough of the Roman Empire.
The background of the binding of Satan passage - almost totally neglected today - is the stubborn, blind resistance of apostate Jews to the preaching of Christ's Kingdom.
So, yes, we are in His Kingdom. Have been for centuries. But it is according to Scripture, not according to the glitzy charts, posters, and imaginative movies.
Jesus isn't sitting on the throne of His glory now? You mean that He hasn't usurped David yet, and taken David's place? When will this happen?
Remember Sissy, Jesus' Kingdom comes with out observation. Jesus is the Head of the local church, as well as the Church, His Body. In the local church, it is smattered with hypocrites, but in the Church, His body, there is not one hypocrit. This is the Kingdom(the invisible body/church), which Jesus reigns over. Sure, He reigns over all of us, whether we be saint or sinner, but He watches over us(the Church) with His everprotecting love.
Verse 16 After this I will return,
After what? Will he return after he is through taking out a people for his name?
What did the sacrifice of the passover do? Did it take away the sin of the world?
Pay the death penalty, the wages of sin?
The feast of unleavened bread. The day following the passover, a holy convocation the day after the death of the Lamb of God, what did it do for us?
1 Cor. 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ,
A feast of seven days with the last day being also a holy convocation; meaning we are to keep this feast all of our lives by keeping the leaven purged from our lives.
1 Cor. 5:8 so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.
How do we do that?
1 John 1:8,9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The next feast, a feast of harvest, the feast of firstfruits, a holy convocation.
Fifty days from the morrow after the weekly sabbath following the passover
the firstfruits of the Spirit was sent setting apart, a people for his name. Romans 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Eph. 1:13,14 In whom ye also, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The throne of his glory? Maybe?
After this, I will return. Waiting for? What will take place when Jesus returns?
Are there trumpets associated with the day of the return of Jesus?
The feast of trumpets, a holy convocation.
I wonder what that is all about? I wonder why God gave these feasts to Israel anyway being they seem to be more about us than them? I wonder if maybe we should be keeping these feasts?
I believe there may be three more feast days following these. Umm?
Food for thought.
percho:
Halley's Bible Handbook, page 31 presents what I believe is the best summary of God's purpose as revealed in the Old Testament Scripture.
THREE BASIC THOUGHTS OF OLD TESTAMENT
1. God's Promise to Abraham:
That in his Seed All Nations should be Blessed.
God founded the Hebrew Nation for the specific purpose of making it a Messianic Nation to the World, That is, a nation in which Great Blessings would come to All Nations.
2. God's Covenant with the Hebrew Nation:
That, if they would Faithfully Serve Him,
they would Prosper as a nation,
That, if they Forsook Him. and served ldols,
they would be Destroyed as a nation
All nations worshipped Idols. There were gods everywhere: gods of the earth, gods of the sea, gods of the land, gods of the cities, gods of the country, gods of the mountains, gods of the valleys, male gods, female gods, families of gods.
The Old Testament is an account of God’s age-long effort to establish, in a world of Idol-Worshipping nations, the Idea that there is One God by Building a Nation around the Idea.
3. God's promise to David:
That His Family should Reign over God’s People Forever.
When God’s Nation became a Great Nation, God chose One Family in the nation, the Family of David, and began to build around that Family His Promises, that, out of That Family there would come One Great King, Who would Himself personally Live Forever, and establish a Universal Kingdom of Endless Duration.
Three Steps in Progress of Old Testament Thought:
1. The Hebrew Nation was founded that through them the Whole World should be Blessed: The Messanic Nation
2. The way the Hebrew Nation would Bless the World would be through the family of David: The Messianic Family.
3. The way the Family would Bless the Borld would be thtough One Great King to be born in the Family: The Messiah.
Thus: In founding the Hebrew Nation,
God’s ULTIMATE object was to bring Christ into the world:
God's IMMEDIATE object was to estabtish, in a world of Idolatry, as a background to the coming of Christ, the Idea that there is One True Living God.
God established for His Covenant People a set of laws and practices; I believe to instill in them the understanding that God was a Holy and Righteous God:
1. The Ten Commandments, which I believe are still valid for all people, especially the Saints of God.
2. Certain sacrifices, ordinances, feast days, etc. All these to be done away with in Jesus Christ and that includes the Passover.
Scripture tells us:
1 Corinthians 5:7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
No more Passover: Jesus Christ is our Passover.
Ephesians 2:15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Colossians 2:14. Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:20. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
No more ordinances, no more feast days, no more sacrifices.
Hebrews 10:4. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
OR
I showed with scripture where it was the sacrifice of the Lamb, the shed blood of Jesus, his death about 3pm on the 14th Nisan that freed us from sin (Egypt) the 15th was the feast the day we left sin (Egypt) leaven was removed from us. This happened the day following the sacrifice. The sacrifice did not negate us being unleavened, it began it and upon confession of sin that same blood continues to cleanse us of unrighteousness for all our life pictured by the second feast day on the 21 Nisan.
According to you the sacrifice did away with the feasts which began the day following the sacrifice. According to you there was no reason for the 120 to be gathered together when Pentecost was fully come. That it was just a coincidence the Holy Spirit fell on them on that feast day, commanded holy convocation, of the LORD.
God obviously saved a number of His elect that day and the Holy Spirit was given as promised!Was it by coincidence or by the plan of God?
Does scripture associate the coming of the Son of Man to sit on the throne of his glory with trumpets. Is that the day the dead are raised to evermore be with the Lord. 1 Thes. 4:16 1 Cor 15:52 Does the term last trump imply others before it? From 2 Tim 4:1 does it appear the dead being judged is at the same moment of his appearing and his kingdom? What takes place when the seventh of seven trumpets are blown? Is that when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and His, Christ and the dead are given rewards? Rev 11:15-18
I guess I must lean toward post trib because that gives at least 10 days for the marriage supper of the Lamb before the Christ has to deal with, Azazel .
Oh I forgot the strongman has already been dealt with nothing demonic is going on on presently.
Is the church, those in Christ, made up of flesh and blood humans and or also those flesh and blood humans who died in Christ, the dead in Christ of 1 Thess 4:13?
That is the church.
Can flesh and blood inherit the kingdom of God and is the scripture clear about when those who are and were flesh and blood are no longer flesh and blood and fit for the kingdom of God?
1 Cor 15:50-55
1 Cor. 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Cor. 15:49-58
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Verse 16 After this I will return,
After what? Will he return after he is through taking out a people for his name?
What did the sacrifice of the passover do? Did it take away the sin of the world?
Pay the death penalty, the wages of sin?
The feast of unleavened bread. The day following the passover, a holy convocation the day after the death of the Lamb of God, what did it do for us?
1 Cor. 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ,
A feast of seven days with the last day being also a holy convocation; meaning we are to keep this feast all of our lives by keeping the leaven purged from our lives.
1 Cor. 5:8 so that we may keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with unleavened food of sincerity and truth.
How do we do that?
1 John 1:8,9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The next feast, a feast of harvest, the feast of firstfruits, a holy convocation.
Fifty days from the morrow after the weekly sabbath following the passover
the firstfruits of the Spirit was sent setting apart, a people for his name. Romans 8:23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Eph. 1:13,14 In whom ye also, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
The throne of his glory? Maybe?
After this, I will return. Waiting for? What will take place when Jesus returns?
Are there trumpets associated with the day of the return of Jesus?
The feast of trumpets, a holy convocation.
I wonder what that is all about? I wonder why God gave these feasts to Israel anyway being they seem to be more about us than them? I wonder if maybe we should be keeping these feasts?
I believe there may be three more feast days following these. Umm?
Food for thought.
Jesus, being on the right hand of the Father in heaven, sitting on His throne, is our mediator, our advocate, our big Brother, our intercessor. This is why I believe He is on the throne of David now.