The Parenthesis Church

[kyredneck]

Literalize where literal is appropriate. That is what I do, at least I try.

There is no doubt that much of Revelation is written in apocalyptic language. In fact it is probable that much of language in the Book of Revelation Chapters 4-22 should not be considered as literal language.

Rev 1:1

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan,

Semaino: to give a sign, to signify, indicate, to make known

IMO, the entire book is symbolized.

That does not mean that apocalyptic language does not teach a literal truth.

Absolutely. It'll sure give one much to ponder and meditate on.

 

[asterisktom]

Revelation 21:1-3
1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them.

Personally I believe much of Revelation becomes clearer once we take that opening passage into due consideration, that the book is a whole series of signs. These signs point to definite truths of a spiritual nature.

Case in point is this New Jerusalem. I believe, based on the correlation of these Revelation passages with the latter chapters in Isaiah, that we are now in the New Jerusalem.

Not only that, I believe that we are the New Jerusalem. The passage above says as much. We are the Bride of Christ. The New Jerusalem is "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

 

[kyredneck]

His disciples say, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no dark saying. Jn 16:29

Literalize where literal is appropriate. That is what I do, at least I try.....

And I do. This I take very literally:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 21:6

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

He spoke very plainly there. No signs, no symbolism.

 

[convicted1]

To my fellow amil Brethern; at what point do you see this earth being destroyed, elements melted with fervent heat, the heavens passing away with a great noise, etc?

 

[Iconoclast]

To my fellow amil Brethern; at what point do you see this earth being destroyed, elements melted with fervent heat, the heavens passing away with a great noise, etc?

Willis,

Most amill and post mill see this as happening ....on the last day.

Some....a minority see this language as symbolic of Ot Israel, the government and religious theocracy.....being destroyed, or judged ...and the New Covenant.....coming in it's place.....the most prominent theologian I am aware of who held this view.....was John Owen.

Most see it as a literal renewing and makeover of this sin cursed creation....sort of like how the flood destroyed the world of the ungodly, and Then noah came out of the ark to a "new creation"[in type} more like renewed.
because in the eternal state, the curse is fully removed...it would seem that this burning up, or purging will take place...in any case:thumbs:

here was owens idea....I offer it, I think there is at least a sense in which it has some merit as the Ot passing away was significant....

Owen On the 'New Heavens and Earth.'
(2 Peter iii. 13)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The apostle makes a distribution of the world into heaven and earth, and saith they were destroyed with water, and perished. We know that neither the fabric nor substance of the one or other was destroyed, but only men that liveth on the earth; and the apostle tells us (ver. 7) of the heaven and earth that were then, and were destroyed by water, distinct from the heavens and the earth that were now, and were to be consumed by fire; and yet as to the visible fabric of heaven and earth they were the same both before the flood and in the apostle's time, and continue so to this day; when yet it is certain that the heavens and earth, whereof he spake, were to be destroyed and consumed by fire in that generation. We must, then, for the clearing of our foundation a little, consider what the apostle intends by the heavens and the earth in these two places.

' 1. It is certain that what the apostle intends by the world, with its heaven, and earth (vers. 5, 6), which was destroyed ; the same, or some-what of that kind, he intends by the heavens and the earth that were to be consumed and destroyed by fire (ver. 7) ; otherwise there would be no coherence in the apostle's discourse, nor any kind of argument, but a mere fallacy of words.

' 2. It is certain that by the flood, the world, or the fabric of heaven and earth, was not destroyed, but only the inhabitants of the world; and therefore the destruction intimated to succeed by fire is not of the substance of the heavens and the earth, which shall not be consumed until the last day, but of person or men living in the world.

'3. Then we must consider in what sense men living in the world are said to be the world, and the heavens and earth of it. I shall only insist on one instance to this purpose among many that may be produced: Isa. li. 15, 16. The time when the work here mentioned, of planting the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth, was performed by God was when He divided the sea (ver. 15) and gave the law (ver. 16), and said to Zion, Thou art my people; that is, when He took the children of Israel out of Egypt, and formed them in the wilderness into a church and state; then He planted the heavens and laid the foundation of the earth: that is, brought forth order, and government, and beauty from the confusion wherein before they were. This is the planting of the heavens and laying the foundation of the earth in the world. And since it is that when mention is made of the destruction of a state and government, it is in that language which seems to set forth the end of the world. So Isa. xxxiv. 4, which is yet but the destruction of the state of Edom. The like also is affirmed of the Roman Empire (Rev. vi. 14), which the Jews constantly affirm to be intended by Edom in the prophets. And in our Saviour Christ's prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem (Matt. xxiv.) He sets it out by expressions of the same importance. It is evident, then, that in the prophetical idiom and manner of speech, by heavens and earth, the civil and religious state and combination of men in the world, and the men of them, were often understood. So were the heavens and earth that world which then was destroyed by the flood.

' 4. On this foundation I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state; for which I shall offer these two reasons, of many that might be insisted on from the text:-

'(1.) Because whatever is here mentioned was to have its peculiar influence on the men of that generation. He speaks of that wherein both the profane scoffers and those scoffed at were concerned, and that as Jews, some of them believing, others opposing, the faith. Now there was no particular concernment of that generation, nor in that sin, nor in that scoffing, as to the day of judgment in general ; but there was a peculiar relief for the one and a peculiar dread for the other at hand, in the destruction of the Jewish nation ; and, besides, an ample testimony both to the one and the other of the power and dominion of the Lord Jesus Christ, which was the thing in question between them.

'(2.) Peter tells them, that after the destruction and judgment that he speaks of (vers. 7-13), " We, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth,' etc. They had this expectation. But what is that promise? Where may we find it? Why, we have it in the very words and letter, Isa. lxv. 17. Now, when shall this be that God shall create these new heavens and new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness? Saith Peter, " It shall be after the coming of the Lord, after that judgment and destruction of ungodly men, who obey not the gospel, that I foretell." But now it is evident from this place of Isaiah, with chap. lxvi. 21, 22, that this is a prophecy of Gospel times only; and that the planting of these new heavens is nothing but the creation of Gospel ordinances to endure for ever. The same thing is so expressed Heb. xii. 26-28.
This being the design of the place, I shall not insist longer on the context, but briefly open the words proposed, and fix upon the truth continued in them.

First, There is the foundation of the apostle's inference and exhortation, seeing that all these things, however precious they seem, or what value soever any put upon them, shall be dissolved, that is, destroyed; and that in that dreadful and fearful manner before mentioned, in a day of judgment, wrath, and vengeance, by fire and sword; let others mock at the threats of Christ's coming: He will come- He will not tarry; and then the heavens and earth that God Himself planted, -the sun, moon, and stars of the Judaical polity and church, -the whole old world of worship and worshippers, that stand out in their obstinancy against the Lord Christ, shall be sensibly dissolved and destroyed: this we know shall be the end of these things, and that shortly.

There is no outward constitution nor frame of things in government or nations, but it is subject to a dissolution, and may receive it, and that in a way of judgment. If any might plead exemption, that, on many accounts, of which the apostle was discoursing in prophetical terms (for it was not yet time to speak it openly to all) might interpose for its share.'*

* Dr. Owen's Sermon on 2 Peter iii. 11. Works, folio, Reprinted 1721.

 

[kyredneck]

To my fellow amil Brethern; at what point do you see this earth being destroyed, elements melted with fervent heat, the heavens passing away with a great noise, etc?

Most likely when Sol turns supernova.....

Willis,

Most amill and post mill see this as happening ....on the last day.

Some....a minority see this language as symbolic of Ot Israel, the government and religious theocracy.....being destroyed, or judged ...and the New Covenant.....coming in it's place.....the most prominent theologian I am aware of who held this view.....was John Owen.

Most see it as a literal renewing and makeover of this sin cursed creation....sort of like how the flood destroyed the world of the ungodly, and Then noah came out of the ark to a "new creation"[in type} more like renewed.
because in the eternal state, the curse is fully removed...it would seem that this burning up, or purging will take place...in any case:thumbs:

here was owens idea....I offer it, I think there is at least a sense in which it has some merit as the Ot passing away was significant....

Thanks for this Icon, I wasn't aware Owens held to this view. It's significant to note that Peter was an apostle to the Jews [of that generation].

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth (read the land); and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
12 whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Mt 3

 

[Iconoclast]

Most likely when Sol turns supernova.....



Thanks for this Icon, I wasn't aware Owens held to this view. It's significant to note that Peter was an apostle to the Jews [of that generation].

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth (read the land); and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
12 whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire. Mt 3

Kyred,,,,

I was quite stunned years ago when I first came across this.My first reaction was how could he think this???
but when you go and look at Isa 65, 66 ...it gets some support. So , now i give each view a look, and sort of keep them on the back burner,but still available....The change from ot/nt was a radical change, and some of the language used in the OT....can only be explained as some of these men have set it out. At this point i am not settled on this.This might be a case of the text having some application, at the very least.:wavey::wavey:

 

[OldRegular]

To my fellow amil Brethern; at what point do you see this earth being destroyed, elements melted with fervent heat, the heavens passing away with a great noise, etc?

If you interpret the last 3 chapters of Revelation correctly it happens in connection with the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Finally convicted1! Finally!:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

What do you mean by "finally"? That I finally addressed the OP in the way you hoped someone would? Or that I finally got something right in your eyes? :laugh: I am guessing the latter moreso than the former.

 

[convicted1]

Willis,

Most amill and post mill see this as happening ....on the last day.

Some....a minority see this language as symbolic of Ot Israel, the government and religious theocracy.....being destroyed, or judged ...and the New Covenant.....coming in it's place.....the most prominent theologian I am aware of who held this view.....was John Owen.

Most see it as a literal renewing and makeover of this sin cursed creation....sort of like how the flood destroyed the world of the ungodly, and Then noah came out of the ark to a "new creation"[in type} more like renewed.
because in the eternal state, the curse is fully removed...it would seem that this burning up, or purging will take place...in any case:thumbs:

here was owens idea....I offer it, I think there is at least a sense in which it has some merit as the Ot passing away was significant....

So Brother Iconoclast, wouldn't your position be more inline with the historical pre-mill position, moreso than the amil? This is what I have garnered from what Owens posted.

 

[convicted1]

If you interpret the last 3 chapters of Revelation correctly it happens in connection with the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Brother Baker,

Trying to figure out how this is accomplished, the end time events, is something that has caused me much confusion as to what happens, and when.

I used to think the world would be burned up, and then Christ would return to gather His children, but if that were the case, then how could they come from their graves if the world is already burnt? So I kinda see it like this: The last trump sounds, and Jesus comes in the Cloud(1 Thess. 4), the dead in Christ rise first and met Jesus in the air(cloud). Then the rest of the unsaved dead are risen up, and their guilty sentence is renderded before the Great White Throne(Matt. 25, Rev. 20), and they are cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and his minions. The world is then obliterated with fire from heaven, and we return to heaven in the Cloud to be forever with our Triune God. How does this sound?

 

[kyredneck]

So Brother Iconoclast, wouldn't your position be more inline with the historical pre-mill position, moreso than the amil? This is what I have garnered from what Owens posted.

Preterists hold to Owen's view of the passage, and I doubt he had ever heard of preterism. Kinda like Phillip Mauro or Adam Clarke, two sources often quoted by preterists and most likely neither of them had ever heard the term in their lives.

 

[percho]

Brother Baker,

Trying to figure out how this is accomplished, the end time events, is something that has caused me much confusion as to what happens, and when.

I used to think the world would be burned up, and then Christ would return to gather His children, but if that were the case, then how could they come from their graves if the world is already burnt? So I kinda see it like this: The last trump sounds, and Jesus comes in the Cloud(1 Thess. 4), the dead in Christ rise first and met Jesus in the air(cloud). Then the rest of the unsaved dead are risen up, and their guilty sentence is renderded before the Great White Throne(Matt. 25, Rev. 20), and they are cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and his minions. The world is then obliterated with fire from heaven, and we return to heaven in the Cloud to be forever with our Triune God. How does this sound?

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is presently taking place in the world. The church is being called out to rule with Christ when he comes to sit on the throne of his glory. The prophets agreed that this would take place, that is the calling out a people for his name from among the Gentiles/heathen. They will not rule with him until after their resurrection. Jesus calls this the age to come in Luke 20 and the same time period he calls following him in the regeneration in Matthew 19:28.

I would think that Acts 15:16 is speaking of this same time period. After this. that is after he has called out a people for his name he will return and rebuild the house of David which is fallen down, that is the throne of David, the throne of Christ's glory. There is going have to be someone to rule over.

Verse 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

It appears to me that people will be able to come to the Lord at this time. Notice they seek not only the Lord but the Lord and the people called for his name. What do kings do? What do priests do? Will this be a time of proper education? I think an interesting thought is what order will these priest be after. Melchisedec or Levi? Where will Satan be at this time? What will he be doing relative to the residue of mankind?

Will the residue of mankind be marrying and having children at this time?
What about those ruling with Christ?

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother Baker,

Trying to figure out how this is accomplished, the end time events, is something that has caused me much confusion as to what happens, and when.

I used to think the world would be burned up, and then Christ would return to gather His children, but if that were the case, then how could they come from their graves if the world is already burnt? So I kinda see it like this: The last trump sounds, and Jesus comes in the Cloud(1 Thess. 4), the dead in Christ rise first and met Jesus in the air(cloud). Then the rest of the unsaved dead are risen up, and their guilty sentence is renderded before the Great White Throne(Matt. 25, Rev. 20), and they are cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and his minions. The world is then obliterated with fire from heaven, and we return to heaven in the Cloud to be forever with our Triune God. How does this sound?

A lot odf this entire discussion revovoles around HOW to view the prophetic word of God!

is it to be seen as fully fulfilled, using allegory and spiritualising terms/events?

Or will it be literally fulfilled?

Still trying to see how ome casn view as NOW in the Millinium reign of Christ, with NO change on the conditions here on earth since his acension?

As I still see a future physical resurrection of the saints at return of jesus, and still see the need to have Him rule over thos world system AFTER he puts them all down...

bottom line to me is that this world is NOT being run as if the messianic Kingdom is alreasdy in place here, at least NOT the way described in the Bible!

 

[OldRegular]

Brother Baker,

Trying to figure out how this is accomplished, the end time events, is something that has caused me much confusion as to what happens, and when.

I used to think the world would be burned up, and then Christ would return to gather His children, but if that were the case, then how could they come from their graves if the world is already burnt? So I kinda see it like this: The last trump sounds, and Jesus comes in the Cloud(1 Thess. 4), the dead in Christ rise first and met Jesus in the air(cloud). Then the rest of the unsaved dead are risen up, and their guilty sentence is renderded before the Great White Throne(Matt. 25, Rev. 20), and they are cast into the Lake of Fire, along with Satan and his minions. The world is then obliterated with fire from heaven, and we return to heaven in the Cloud to be forever with our Triune God. How does this sound?

I agree pretty much except for the last sentence.

Scripture tells us in Revelation 20:11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

I believe that all will stand before the Great White Throne. Scripture tells us in Revelation 20:12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Note that the Book of Life is opened. I believe it is at the White Throne Judgment where the Saints of God will receive final vindication. In Revelation 6:9,10 we are told:

9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

I believe it is at the Great White Throne where the cry of these Saints is answered. I would also add that the presence of the Book of Life at the Great White Throne Judgment is one reason, among many, that I must reject the full preterist interpretation of Revelation and other Scripture dealing with the Second Coming.

Of course the above language is symbolic but the existing heaven and earth are no more. They are either renewed or regenerated as some believe [See Romans 8:22] or are destroyed and a New Heavens and New Earth created as indicated in Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. This New Heavens and New Earth is where all the redeemed of all time, the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ will dwell in the presence of God. This is where I disagree with your last sentence.

Keep in mind that what is pictured here is God dealing directly with man and creation. It is not possible for human language to adequately express or the human mind to adequately comprehend these events.

The primary message of Revelation is that the Triune God and the Church of Jesus Christ are victorious. The faith of all the Saints is vindicated! I hesitate to use the expression "We Win" but we do and only because of and through Jesus Christ!

 

[OldRegular]

A lot odf this entire discussion revovoles around HOW to view the prophetic word of God!

is it to be seen as fully fulfilled, using allegory and spiritualising terms/events?

Or will it be literally fulfilled?

Still trying to see how ome casn view as NOW in the Millinium reign of Christ, with NO change on the conditions here on earth since his acension?

As I still see a future physical resurrection of the saints at return of jesus, and still see the need to have Him rule over thos world system AFTER he puts them all down...

bottom line to me is that this world is NOT being run as if the messianic Kingdom is alreasdy in place here, at least NOT the way described in the Bible!

There will be no Messianic Kingdom as you view it. Jesus Christ is reigning now from the right hand of God the Father and with the deceased Saints.

 

[percho]

There will be no Messianic Kingdom as you view it. Jesus Christ is reigning now from the right hand of God the Father and with the deceased Saints.

Would you compare the above statement with my post from Acts 15:14-17?

Is God currently through taking out a people for his name?

So you believe Jesus is currently ruling and the ones ruling with him are those he called and have died? Has 1 Thess. 4:13-18 already taken place?

From that passage just when will the dead in Christ ever more be with the lord?

If I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there ye shall be also.

Has he come again and received unto himself? If so, when did this take place?



I am going to start a thread with questions concerning a passage that I covet all's thoughts. Questions concerning Heb. 2:5 and following.

 

[OldRegular]

Would you compare the above statement with my post from Acts 15:14-17?

Is God currently through taking out a people for his name?

Daily! That is what Acts 15:14-17 tells us. And this is fulfillment of prophecy referenced in verse 16.

So you believe Jesus is currently ruling and the ones ruling with him are those he called and have died?

Yes!

Has 1 Thess. 4:13-18 already taken place?

No! There has been only one resurrection, that of Jesus Christ.

From that passage just when will the dead in Christ ever more be with the lord?

The souls of the deceased Saints are with jesus Christ now. That is what Revelation 20:1ff tells us. After the resurrection of all the dead [John 5:28, 29] and the Great White Throne Judgment the Saints in their resurrected bodies will dwell in the New Heavens and New Earth with the Triune God[Revelation 21, 22].

If I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there ye shall be also.

Has he come again and received unto himself? If so, when did this take place?

He comes daily for His Saints.

I am going to start a thread with questions concerning a passage that I covet all's thoughts. Questions concerning Heb. 2:5 and following.

Look for it!!

 

[percho]

Daily! That is what Acts 15:14-17 tells us. And this is fulfillment of prophecy referenced in verse 16.

Yes!


No! There has been only one resurrection, that of Jesus Christ.


The souls of the deceased Saints are with jesus Christ now. That is what Revelation 20:1ff tells us. After the resurrection of all the dead [John 5:28, 29] and the Great White Throne Judgment the Saints in their resurrected bodies will dwell in the New Heavens and New Earth with the Triune God[Revelation 21, 22].



He comes daily for His Saints.





Look for it!!

When that one resurrection took place and we agree there has been up to this present time only one, firstborn from the dead and that was Jesus of Nazareth the Son of Man the Son of God.

There was a prophesy made in the Old Testament concerning this resurrection by the prophet David of which Peter quoted on the day of Pentecost. It was relative to two aspects of the once living soul, Jesus, who a moment before dying had commended his spirit, (his life) into the hands of the one who had begotten him as the anointed, who had come in the flesh.

1. Was Jesus the soul. The person who some loved and others hated but was now dead.
2. The flesh and blood body, the earthly house of tabernacle, of the soul that is subject to be dissolved, that is corruptible.

1. Jesus the soul would not be left dead in Hades.
2. His flesh would not see corruption. Called the sure mercies of David, of which David never experienced.

The soul Jesus and the body incorruptible were resurrected from the dead by his Father God by the Spirit of God the Father. The dead soul Jesus was renewed with the Spirit Holy in an incorruptible body of flesh and bone.

2 Tim 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

I believe it is the soul and the body that is resurrected/changed and enters the kingdom of God at his appearing.

That takes place simultaneously. Speaking to the church.
2 Thess 1:4,5 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Where is Jesus presently?

Just my thoughts. I also do not have a clear understanding of it all.

 

[Amy.G]

For anyone to think that we are presently living in the Kingdom (the millennium) is just unbelievable to me. Our world is dominated by evil and darkness. Just watch the news. The devil is still prowling around seeking those whom he can devour. He is certainly not bound.