The Peace Of God That Passes All Understanding

[Dr. Bob]

Depression can have any number of physical causes that have NOTHING to do with one's spiritual condition.

Read the now-closed thread on Depression to my wife (the doctor) who wondered who was passing off such tripe as truth.

BTW, still waiting for any comments on the four scriptures I gave (page 1).

 

[Thankful]

Thank you, Mark, for answering my questions.

Dr. Bob, thank you and amen to your post on
FOUR SCRIPTURES TO CONSIDER

 

[Lorelei]

Dr. Bob,

With all due respect, I am still waiting for your explanation of Biblical Clinical Depression from the other thread. You never responded how anyone who had depression in the Bible was cured from that same depression. To call their depression "clinical" when it was cured through spiritual means is misleading.

Your verses are pointless in the discussion because they deal with Christians who are physically sick. I don't believe that depression is an illness. We therefore end up talking past or at each other because we are not talking about the same thing.

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
LOreli

Your site's research is out of date, and probably the comments are taken out of context.

So you are saying that depression has only been proven in the last 5 years? To say is outdated implies that up until those statements were made, they were correct.

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
I am always skeptical of a site that only presents one side of an argument.

You aren't going to find any that aren't biased in one way or another. I guarantee you Time is biased and would never agree that God can cure depression. They deny any spiritual aspect of it whatsoever.

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
Time Magazine ran an artilce in summer 2002, and mentally ill individual's brains were examined postmortem, and there are appreciable physical differences in these organs versus those who do not suffer "psychiatric" disorders.

Are we speaking of identifiable mental illness, brain damage, genetic disorders that cause actual mental retardation or other such illnesses or simply "depression"? The two are in no way related.

~Lorelei

 

[ByGrace]

Dear Lorelei,

I'm eagerly awaiting your reply to my post, which was a reply to your post.

I will post it again here so it will refresh your memory:

Depression caused by a thyroid dysfunction is not a theory. Panic attacks caused by an thyroid auto-immune disease is not theory. I've suffered with both. When my thyroid condition was controlled by medications my depression and panic attacks ceased. When my condition flares, as it sometimes does, the symptoms return....also not a theory. When my thyroid medication is adjusted, once again the symptoms cease....Not a theory.

In His love,
Grace

 

[ByGrace]

Dr. Bob,

Amen and amen!

In His love,
Grace

 

[Lorelei]

Grace,

Your first comment said depression was caused by a chemical imbalance, which I pointed out has never actually been proven.

Then you say that your depression was caused by a thyroid problem. If it is a physical problem, then fix it. That has nothing to do with your first statement that it was a chemical imbalance in the brain.

~Lorelei

 

[Ed Edwards]

Jude 1:20-23 (KJV1873):

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves
on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ
unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire;
hating even the garment
spotted by the flesh.

Father God, please help us have the wisdom
to know which of these two remedies to
apply in which individual case.

 

[CompassionFlower]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Grace,

Your first comment said depression was caused by a chemical imbalance, which I pointed out has never actually been proven.

Then you say that your depression was caused by a thyroid problem. If it is a physical problem, then fix it. That has nothing to do with your first statement that it was a chemical imbalance in the brain.

~Lorelei [/QUOTE

Dear Lorelei: Maybe this will help. A thyroid problem is a physical problem, it in this case is a thyroid that is inactive, meaning the thyroid is very slow at producing and doing what it is suppose to. To have a inactive thyroid, leaves one feeling, being tired, very dragged out, other side affects from a poor functioning thyroid is you feel cold, literally cold, your skin is very dry all of the time. So yes, you can take synthyoid for this problem to make your thyroid function better, but it does not take away all of your symptoms. You still are tired, dragging, and what happens when you are physically feeling this way, you can become more tired that much easier over simple everyday tasks.

Now take depression on top of that, your brain has a chemical imbalance, if left untreated, you add to being more tired, more fatigued. So what Grace was trying to tell you was she already has a inactive thyroid, with some of the same symptoms as depression, now take the chemical imbalance in your brain and you have just compound the symptoms of depression and thyroid disease together. How do you think you would feel, these are not just feelings, the feel is real to your physical nature.

Hope this helps.

Pam

 

[Pastor Larry]

I think the point is that thyroid can cause depression. It is not thyroid plus chemical imbalance. It is thyroid that causes chemical imbalance. That is a condition that can be tested.

The implication that it is a thyroid plus a chemical imbalance of some non-descript, non-testable nature is the problem.

As for having compassion, Ed, I don't think anyone here is suggesting we shouldn't have compassion. I don't see that as being the issue. Remember that this is a message board, not a counseling situation, and that inflection cannot be heard. Remember as well that brevity is encouraged here and it limits the nature of the replies.

 

[CompassionFlower]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
Compassionate Flower,

By not associating with false religions I don't mean having nothing to do with the people. I mean not doing anything to condone or participate in their false religion.

If you are married to a JW you should stay married to him and be a faithful wife to him. But you should not in any way participate in his religion. That is what I mean by having fellowship with false religion.

Mark Osgatharp

Dear Mark: Well this clears things up a lot, places a better light on things. Yes, I will most defintely stay married to my JW husband, I will also continue to be in submission to him, my submission to him is as long as it does not interfer with what Christ guides me to do. I would not go to the kingdom hall to meetings with my husband. If there is a funeral in the family at the kingdom hall, it would than be appropriate for me to go, out of respect for my husband and his family. While at the kingdom hall, I would not say "Amen" to their prayers, or sing there songs, but yes I would be polite and respectful. Seeing I am considered an XJW by the JW's they would not speak a word to me, it is called shunning. Shunning is done to the person to get them to come back to the organization of JW's. While this is very hurtful to have done to you, I believe that it is better to be respectful and loving as Christ.

Here is a wonderful thought, my husband the JW goes to church with me, the baptist church. On Sunday mornings when we are in the small bible study lately he has been willingly talking about some of his beliefs in the bible. It truly is wonderful to see the Father drawing him. Am very thankful for the love Christ has shown me.

We pray to an awesome God.

Pam

 

[CompassionFlower]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I think the point is that thyroid can cause depression. It is not thyroid plus chemical imbalance. It is thyroid that causes chemical imbalance. That is a condition that can be tested.

The implication that it is a thyroid plus a chemical imbalance of some non-descript, non-testable nature is the problem.

As for having compassion, Ed, I don't think anyone here is suggesting we shouldn't have compassion. I don't see that as being the issue. Remember that this is a message board, not a counseling situation, and that inflection cannot be heard. Remember as well that brevity is encouraged here and it limits the nature of the replies.

Dear Pastor Larry,

Let me try this again. Thyroid can cause some of the same symptoms that depression causes. Thyroid disease itself does not cause depression. You can have thyroid disease, inactive, but that does not lead to depression. Thyroid has to do with hormones, nothing to do with chemicals in the brain.

Side affects are the tiredness, fatigue, caused by the thyroid.

If you are also depressed on top of your thyroid problem, the symptoms are compounded.

What is anyone's defintion of depression? It seems to be a disagreement on what causes depression. Doctor's now say, not that depression is "new", rather more reseach done that it is cause by a chemical imbalance in the brain, this chemical imbalance is caused by stressful things in a person's life. The longer the stressfulness was endured over periods of time, this causes the chemical imbalance in the brain.

Yes, I have both of them have been going to the doctor for years on my thyroid, the thyroid disease did not cause my depression. Hope this helps.

Pam

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by CompassionFlower:
Let me try this again. Thyroid can cause some of the same symptoms that depression causes. Thyroid disease itself does not cause depression. You can have thyroid disease, inactive, but that does not lead to depression. Thyroid has to do with hormones, nothing to do with chemicals in the brain.

There was no need to try again

... I understood the first time.

My point is that thyroid problems do bring chemical imablances that bring depression. That is not disputed. What we are talking about is the kind of depression that is not caused by things like that, this mysterious "chemical imbalance in the brain."

You talk about symptoms of depression (from thyroid) vs. actual depression. But doctors diagnose "actual depression" by a patient's recounting of the symptoms, which goes back to my point. Thyroid, or other medical problems, can contribute to depression. When they do, they should be treated medically. When depression is not attributable to that, then we need to pursue something else.

The first homework assignment for a counselee facing depression is to get a full medical checkup to rule out such things. If they come back with a medical issue, then we treat it medically. If the doctor says that everything medically is fine, then we have ruled out chemical imbalances and the like and can begin to address the real issues.

If you are also depressed on top of your thyroid problem, the symptoms are compounded.

But you deal with one different than the other.

This chemical imbalance that is caused by stress is relieve by a simple method: Eliminate the stress by either changing the situation or changing your thought problems. A friend of mine had some medical issues of this type. He went to the doctor and the doctor said it was stress and wanted to treat him medically for it. My friend said, Nope, I don't have to live that way. So he changed his thought process. Same job, same stress (and I know the stress because I worked there for a while). But different thought process and the "sickness" went away.

 

[CompassionFlower]

Pastor Larry:

So you change your thoughts to positive. Have been reading books like, The Battlefield of the Mind, by Joyce Meyer. Loving God With All Your Mind, by Elizabeth George. Conquering Intimidation, by Kate Mc Veigh.

Philippians 4:8 Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy ---think about such things

Personally have given up watching TV ever since my journey with Christ. It has been two years, this last February. Now my desire is to search for Spiritual things.

Pam

 

[Ed Edwards]

Pastor Larry: "As for having compassion, Ed,
I don't think anyone here is suggesting
we shouldn't have compassion.
I don't see that as being the issue."

I did not suggest that anybody wasn't.
I was reminding myself that compassion is
required AS NEEDED.

Pastor Larry: " Remember that this is a message board,
not a counseling situation,
and that inflection cannot be heard.

This is a message board.
This is a counseling situation.
Spiritual advise has been given
and has been accepted.
Physical advise has been given
(no note of it being accepted yet).
Inflection cannot be heard.

Pastor Larry: "Remember as well that brevity
is encouraged here and it limits the nature
of the replies. "

I agree. Show us the way by your example.

Free spiritual advise from ed,
useful for enhansement of intrapersonal interactions:

Phillippians 4:6 (KJV1873):

Be careful for nothing; but in every thing
by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving
let your requests be made known unto God.

I have found in fifty years of Christian living
that if a Christian prays for God's good blessings
to be unto another person every day for
a month, it is impossible to NOT LOVE them
and even harder to speak ill of them.

Toward that end then, we pray for Pastor Larry.

May all God's best blessings be unto Pastor
Larry this week-end and unto his family and
unto his ministry. May God grant this favor
so that we might be the more willing to give
more honor and glory unto our blessed
Lord and Savior: Messiah Jesus. Amen.

 

[CompassionFlower]

Dear Friends,

Please forgive me for my little thoughts. You have a wisdom here that I so much want to understand.

Pam

 

[Ed Edwards]

Father God, creator of the Universe,
please lend your best blessings unto Sister
CompassionFlower this week-end and unto her family and
unto her ministry. Please guide her unto
all wisdom as she takes measures to enhanse
her ministry. May God grant these favors
so that we each might give
more honor and glory unto our blessed
Lord and Savior: Messiah Jesus. Amen.

 

[ByGrace]

Lorelei,

Your first comment said depression was caused by a chemical imbalance, which I pointed out has never actually been proven.

Then you say that your depression was caused by a thyroid problem. If it is a physical problem, then fix it. That has nothing to do with your first statement that it was a chemical imbalance in the brain.

LOL There are many diseases that cause depression...some of them by way of causing a chemical imbalance in the brain. And, by the way, a chemical imbalance is a physical problem.

Would you be so kind as to send me the medical documentation you have that states a chemical imbalance in the brain does not cause depression?

In His love,
Grace

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

I know this is going to go over like a lead baloon - but here goes......

......we have people in this forum talking about what does and does not cause depression who hold to grossly evil doctrines. If I believed some of the things that some of you believe I OUGHT to be depressed.

We cannot flaunt the word of God and expect God to give us peace. It is just that simple.

"The way of the transgressor is hard."

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by ByGrace:

Would you be so kind as to send me the medical documentation you have that states a chemical imbalance in the brain does not cause depression?

In His love,
Grace

What kind of medical documentation do you have that proves the Bible as invalid?

I have stated in another thread, even if a chemical action does take place, this can be because of the depression, not the cause of it. Suppose I become angry at someone. The more I think about it, the angrier I become. I can become so angry that my heart beats faster. The physical reaction was caused by the mental reaction, it was not the other way around. I can take medication to help my heart slow down, but until I stop being angry the problem was never cured, it was merely "controlled".

The fact that so many diseases "cause" depression makes me question the validity of depression as a disease by itself. What other diseases "cause" another disease to occur? What diseases are created by outside circumstances? Did September 11th cause people to have diabetes or heart disease? No, then how could it give them the "disease" of depression? It didn't, depression is NOT an illness.

The Bible speaks clearly. It says do not worry, it says do not be anxious. It says we should rejoice in all things. We have much to be hopeful for and nothing to fear. These emotions are optional and the Bible promises us peace that passes ALL human understanding. No psychologist or doctor can fathom that peace, and there is no way that they can give it to you or help you experience it. Only God can do that. I believe the Bible. When the medical profession begins to claim that we are not responsible for emotions that the Bible says we are responsible for, then I have to give the Bible precedence.

~Lorelei