The Philosophy of Calvinism

[kyredneck]

The Jews judicially murdered Him but God annulled their unrighteous judgment and raised Him from the dead.

Not true Jesus layed down his own life no one took His life

Yes, He did indeed willingly submit to the cross [Matthew 26:53] but the Holy Spirit makes no bones about convicting the Jews of the crime. Take note, in all these examples given, of the redundancy of the message from the Comforter to the Jews; YOU KILLED HIM, BUT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Acts 2:
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:
24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.

Acts 3:
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you,
15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 4:
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 5:
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them,
28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us.
29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.
31 Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people.
9 But there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake.
15 And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;
53 ye who received the law as it was ordained by angels, and kept it not.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.

Acts 10:
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree.
40 Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest,
41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

Acts 13:
16 And Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken:
27 For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people.

The perpetrators willingly admitted to their guilt:

25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Mt 27

The Jews killed Him but God raised Him from the dead.

 

[MB]

Yes, He did indeed willingly submit to the cross but the Holy Spirit makes no bones about convicting the Jews of the crime. Take note, in all these examples given, of the redundancy of the message from the Comforter to the Jews; YOU KILLED HIM, BUT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Acts 2:
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:
24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.

Acts 3:
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you,
15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 4:
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 5:
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them,
28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us.
29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.
31 Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people.
9 But there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake.
15 And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;
53 ye who received the law as it was ordained by angels, and kept it not.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.

Acts 10:
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree.
40 Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest,
41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.

Acts 13:
16 And Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken:
27 For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people.

The perpetrators willingly admitted to their guilt:

25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Mt 27

The Jews killed Him but God raised Him from the dead.

Men because of grief accuse them selves yet it was the Romans that crucified Him. Christ Him self said no man takes His life. I take Christ at His word. Actually all men are guilty because there was no other way. We are all sinners not one is perfect.
MB

 

[kyredneck]

it was the Romans that crucified Him

The Holy Spirit convicts the Jews of the crime, NOT the Romans. The Romans were but tools used by the Jews:

Ye men of Israel...Jesus of Nazareth...ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay whom God raised up, Acts 2:22-24

 

[Yeshua1]

Personally, I would get rid of them...
But that's just me.

Myself,
I can't think of any reason a believer should use such things, as we have the Holy Spirit as Teacher ( John 6:45, 1 John 2:20-27 ) and the Lord has given us all that we need that pertains to life and godliness in the Person of His Spirit and the presence of His word.

Could we maybe re-label them as,
"Stuff that's useful to know when comparing notes with others who read the Bible for themselves, but I trust the Lord to get me there on my own, just like He did for some of them"?

We are to also learn of the giants of the faith before us, as God did gift them to us, the Spurgeon, Calvin, and the like!

 

[Yeshua1]

Except you ate assuming. Scripture tells us to focus on Who? How do we know the Father? What is the ONLY way for man to know God? How is God revealed to man?

If you stich with the Trinity then you are wrong. Scripture says we can only know God because Christ has revealed God to us as He is the 3xact image of the Father.

We can't find a "backdoor" to the God. We have to focus on Christ - and in the Son the Godhead is revealed.

All Three of the Trinity are in the scriptures, so must focus on all 3 of them, as all are God!

 

[Yeshua1]

Because that is where my interest is. If it were baseball season it may be different.

I am not name calling. I do not understand why people think "philosophy" is a bad word. We all incorporate philosophical ideas when we reason out scrioture. We have to.

I am simply saying we need to identify these ideas and defend them.

Here I identified several. But we have talked around them.

I am genuinely interested in how they would be defended biblically. These are at the very heart of Calvinism (as a theology). If the presuppositions are incorrect then so is the theology even if the conclusions are right.

Each one of the so called Doctrines of God have ample biblical support for them!

 

[Yeshua1]

lol....yes. The 15th century philosophy.

OK. This is a good start.

What you provided are not passages but your understanding of Spiritual truths.

I told you I'm a Biblicist. If it is not in the Bible then I may believe it, but I refuse to hold it to the level of scripture.

That's my philosophy of establishing doctrinal authority. To be fair, I will explain my reason for that method. I base that on the idea in Scripture. that interpreting "all scripture is God 'breathed'" (2 Tim 3) , Paul's prohibition against going beyond "what is written" (1 Corinthians 4), and the teaching that we are to evaluate doctrine against scripture (1 Thessalonians 5). From those passages I come to the conclusion that men must be able to explain how they arrive at their conclusions when their conclusions are not "what is written". Often Christians go beyond "what is written", which may actually be a sin if Paul's words to Corinth was a command for all believers.

So yes, please show me a verse that says it is just to condemn an innocent man in order to acquit a guilty man. That would be a very good start.

When he was upon that Cross, to the Father, Jesus was at that moment no longer "innocent man". as he who knew no sin became sin, the sin bearer, for us!

 

[Yeshua1]

I do mean one aspect of Penal Substitution Theory. Calvinism is dependent on the Theory (where as other Reformed theologies, like Lutheranism, is not...historically anyway).

The Calvinistic idea of Limited Atonement depends heavily on the idea that one man can justly be punished for the sins of another - NOT for another but for another's sins. There are other issues associated with this idea as well (such as "sins" being treated separately from the one who committed the act, "sins" themselves constituting a demand for justice, etc.).

So there are a lot of things in Calvinism that need to be identified, studied, and defended.

Normally it is simply accepted as "plain readings", even though it is a minority reading in Christianity (which does not matter, even if it were a majority view it'd still need defending because it is not Scripture).

It's an interesting study.

Did not Israel have the sins of the people placed upon that lamb on High day of Atonement?

 

[Yeshua1]

Excellent example.

The passage you provide is not the conclusion you reach.

I also believe He made Him who knew no sin sin on our behalf

But I believe Scripture interprets Scripture and therefore this is pointing to God the act of the Lord in offering His Servant as a guilt offering (Isaiah 53).

Sin is an an evil act. I do not believe most thing God made Jesus an act of evil. Perhaps God did, this time, condemn the Righteous. But that is also not what the passage states.

So we still have to explore how you get from point A (Scripture) to point B (your conclusion).

Jesus faced the same separation from the Faher on the Cross as sinners will experience in Hell....

 

[MB]

The Holy Spirit convicts the Jews of the crime, NOT the Romans. The Romans were but tools used by the Jews:

Ye men of Israel...Jesus of Nazareth...ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay whom God raised up, Acts 2:22-24

This does not make them guiltless Pilot was in charge he could have stopped it.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

I have some genuine concerns with that statement.

Pls consider the Christian Gospel as outlined by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8:

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect.

No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed."
1 Corinthians 15:3-11 (NIV)

I can see no reference to the Trinity in the Gospel; our faith in which saves us.

Also, Christ does not work in opposition to or without the approval of, both our Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit. In fact Christ stated that he had come to do the Father's will:

"For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me."
John 6:38 (NIV)

The Resurrected and Ascended Son now "seated at the right-hand of the Majesty on High" (He whom was originally sent by the Father to undergo a "Baptism of Fire" in his earthly ministry) now sends the Holy Spirit:

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere - in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
Acts 1:8 (NLT)

If memory serves me correctly, theologically the Father is referred to as the "Administrative Head" and the "First Among Equals" (primus inter pares) in the Christian Trinity. Pls do not confuse that usage with the Communist borrowing of the term for their own ideological agenda!!!

I may have confused your post slightly as to being in relation to the Gospel rather than Calvinism per se.

My point was that the beginning of all proper theology is to study and know the trinity!

 

[tyndale1946]

This does not make them guiltless Pilot was in charge he could have stopped it.
MB

No he couldn't have because he wasn't in charge... GOD IS!... If what happened, didn't happen, then where is your destination?... My Salvation is the most precious thing I have and it didn't come cheap!... And I didn't deserve it either... Brother Glen

Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

26:55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.

26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

 

[kyredneck]

This does not make them guiltless Pilot was in charge he could have stopped it.
MB

Yea, the Holy Spirit mentions that very thing, Pilate wanted to stop it, the Jews wouldn't hear of it, and the Spirit still convicts the Jews of the crime:

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:13-15

 

[Dave G]

We are to also learn of the giants of the faith before us, as God did gift them to us, the Spurgeon, Calvin, and the like!

Where is that in Scripture, Dave?

Also, my Bible tells me that if any man among us would be a "giant", let him be the least...
and to serve the body in humility and wisdom.

 

[Yeshua1]

Where is that in Scripture, Dave?

Also, my Bible tells me that if any man among us would be a "giant", let him be the least...
and to serve the body in humility and wisdom.

They are the pastors and teachers listed as gifts given to the Body by God!

 

[Dave G]

They are the pastors and teachers listed as gifts given to the Body by God!

Pastors and teachers are given to the local body, Dave.

I asked you where, in all of the Bible, does it say that I'm to search out the writings of those pastors and teachers that have gone on before me.
Do you have Scripture, or shall I just take your word for it?

I think you're putting too much authority in men...
But that may just be my own faulty view of what you're describing.

 

[Yeshua1]

Pastors and teachers are given to the local body, Dave.

I asked you where, in all of the Bible, does it say that I'm to search out the writings of those pastors and teachers that have gone on before me.
Do you have Scripture, or shall I just take your word for it?

They are given to the Body of Christ Universal, as John MacArthur just not intended for His local church to build up in the faith!

 

[Dave G]

They are given to the Body of Christ Universal, as John MacArthur just not intended for His local church to build up in the faith!

You not answering the question, Dave.
I'm asking for Scripture to back up what you're saying.

I don't recognize popular preachers and teachers, especially para-church ones, as needing to be consulted with when it comes to my understanding of God's word.
While they may have useful things to say,
at the end of the day, His word and His Spirit are all that we really need...
Again, 1 John 2:20-27.

Wouldn't you say?

 

[AustinC]

Where is that in Scripture, Dave?

Also, my Bible tells me that if any man among us would be a "giant", let him be the least...
and to serve the body in humility and wisdom.

Our legacy surrounds us. They guide us, after Jesus has authored our faith, and they point us toward the finish of our faith. They witness to us.

~ Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Dave G]

Our legacy surrounds us. They guide us, after Jesus has authored our faith, and they point us toward the finish of our faith. They witness to us.

If you gentlemen wish to consult with men in order to form your understandings about the Bible, that is fine...
But I'm following Christ alone.
To me, teachers and preachers tell me where in God's word that I can find the answers for myself.
They don't dictate to me how to understand His words.

May God bless each of you.