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Featured The Philosophy of Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Nov 12, 2020.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is not what the verse says. The verse says that God became sin. Sin is an act of evil disobedience of God as an expression of unrighteousness.

    I understand what you are saying - BUT it is an interpretation of the passage and not the passage itself.
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No you don't, you just think that you reject the premise.

    And 'justification not by faith only' CANNOT mean 'justification by faith only', right? It cannot be "that scripture means EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what the words say", right?
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...and you implying Christ was enduring the lake of fire is far more than what is actually written.
     
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Right. It's prophetic, looking to the future.

    "In the New Testament prophecies are not made to point to facts, but facts to point back to prophecies." Alfred Edersheim
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus was experiencing much more than bible memorization quote at that time!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He was feeling what it means to be really forsaken by the Father!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    actually states that Jesus became our sin bearer, took upon Himself what we all deserved in the judgement of God due to us being sinners!
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Ok, but that's not what you said:

    I was taught growing up that hell was basically eternal torment in the flames. You?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    actually, eternal separation from God
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No flames? No Lake of Fire?
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It says He made Him who knew no sin sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

     
  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Old School/Old Line Sovereign Grace Primitive Baptist got rid the the No Heller's false doctrine long before I joined the church and that was 50 years ago... Some teach unbiblical annihilation, we don't, we believe what the Bible says... If it wasn't for the sacrifice Jesus Christ paid on our behalf, that none of us deserved, we would be going the same place!... Thank Almighty God for MERCY!... Brother Glen:)

    Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You have it backwards. Psalm 22 is "quoting" Christ's experience beforehand.

    The forsakenness of God is a cry heard throughout the OT to demonstrate God never forsaken or hides His face from His Servant.

    This foreshadowed the Cross.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Once again, proof that not all TROLLS live under bridges.

    sex sunt quae odit Dominus et septimum detestatur anima eius
    oculos sublimes linguam mendacem manus effundentes innoxium sanguinem
    cor machinans cogitationes pessimas pedes veloces ad currendum in malum
    proferentem mendacia testem fallacem et eum qui seminat inter fratres discordias
    - Proverbs 6:16-19
     
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Why?

    It is not “EXACTLY OPPOSITE” of what 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, in fact that is EXACLY what 2 Corinthians 5:21 states:

    2 Corinthians 5:21
    • [NASB] He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    • [KJV] For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
    • [YLT] for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.
    • [DBY] Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him.
    • [WEB] For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    You keep telling me what it CANNOT mean, while ignoring the actual words that say exactly what you claim they cannot mean. The argument is not that Christ cannot have been made sin ... scripture already refutes that. The question is “How (in what sense) was Christ made sin?” and right along with that “How (in what sense) are we made the righteousness of God?”
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Is God a man?
    Can a man be God?
    Can a woman give birth to the eternal being that created her?
    Can God die, lay three days in a tomb and resurrect Himself?

    Everything about God speaks of paradox and impossibility that is none the less, true. Why is it so impossible for the God that became a man and was tempted to become sin if he so wished?

    It seems just like the LIFE that died, so that all who believe might live forever ... to become “sin” (bent, crooked, missing mark) and in doing so, transform our sin into perfect righteousness by His act of perfect obedience.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Because Scripture states that Christ was obedient.
     
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, God did become a man.

    But you are speaking of God actually changing (His nature) by becoming evil.

    Look, you can believe whatever you want to believe. You will never convince me God became evil and I can not convince you He did not. I'm fine with that.
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    What does it mean that we became the righteousness of God in Him?
    Is our nature unchangeable, too? (It is the exact same verse).
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, man is changeable. In face I belueve we must be reborn and made new creations in Christ.
     
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