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Featured The plausibility of John 3:18

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Mar 24, 2019.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe it is very different. I cannot ignore that Scripture states the condemnation is that they do not believe in the name of God's only begotten Son.
     
    #41 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    ????? Are you honestly saying we don't sin in the womb? That we are born innocent and can literally have POTENTIAL to live a sinless life?
     
    #42 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No but you sure do seem to ignore context and the rest of Scripture.
     
    #43 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2019
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Read my posts in the Atonement thread for a fuller explanation.

    Paul tells us that sin is a "power" that has held sway over mankind. Paul also tells us that from Adam's transgression until Moses sin was not a transgression but it was still sin. Men did not transgress God's law or command in the same manner as Adam's transgression. Jesus tells us that sin is a "power" that has held men in bondage.

    Men are slaves to sin. This is what some refer to as a "sin nature". Even the "good" that natural man may do is not of pure motive.
     
    #44 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes. I am honestly saying that we do not sin in the womb. :rolleyes:
     
    #45 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We believe the same of each other - which is good because otherwise there would be nothing to discuss.
     
    #46 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So you believe each person has the potential to live a sinless life?
     
    #47 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2019
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    How does a baby sin in the womb?

    I see it that the baby in the womb is conceived dead in Adam, as his guilt was passed unto him via imputation. God sees that baby in Adam, and as a result, is under condemnation.
     
    #48 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    We are born already condemned in Adam. Not one thing we did makes us condemned. We’re conceived in this condemned state.
     
    #49 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with this. All are born "under the curse".

    But I believe that Jesus was speaking of an ultimate condemnation (Judgment).
     
    #50 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    What all do you think is included in the curse?
     
    #51 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2019
  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But what of the flood, Abiram, Dathan and Korah and Pharaoh and his army? All of these show God punishing ppl with death. Also, Herod speaks, ppl say He sounds like God(or a god, can’t remember which) and he’s devoured by worms. God metes out His wrath in physical death, too.
     
    #52 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    It is true that we do not sin in the womb as a matter of willful choice or action. However, we are in a state of condemnation in the womb, a state of unbelief, a state of sin - "being evil" and thus we are "transgressors from the womb" due to Adam's one act of disobedience. Furthermore, the absolute proof we are sinners by nature - being evil - in the womb is that no one has to teach us to be evil, think evil or do evil as soon as we are outside of the womb as it comes NATURAL. What parents have to teach children beginning as soon as they are able to express themselves is to be good.
     
    #53 The Biblicist, Mar 25, 2019
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So are the elect prior to their regeneration (Ephesians 2:1-2).
     
    #54 37818, Mar 25, 2019
  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. We were the children of wrath as well.
     
    #55 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do you believe that those who do not believe have been judge already because they have not believed in Christ?
     
    #56 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Do you apply John 3:17 to the "elect prior to their regeneration" or only to those who will never believe?
     
    #57 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    The NASB uses ‘judged already’. The destination of both the saved and lost were sealed when God elected His ppl from before He said, “Let there be light.” So yes, the non-elect have been judged already.
     
    #58 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    But you still haven’t addressed my last couple posts.
     
    #59 SovereignGrace, Mar 25, 2019
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You have not addressed mine. Do you believe that the lost have been judged already because they do not believe in Christ, that the judgment is that the Light has come into the world and men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil?
     
    #60 JonC, Mar 25, 2019
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