I believe it is very different. I cannot ignore that Scripture states the condemnation is that they do not believe in the name of God's only begotten Son.
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The plausibility of John 3:18
- Thread starter JonC
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
????? Are you honestly saying we don't sin in the womb? That we are born innocent and can literally have POTENTIAL to live a sinless life?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No but you sure do seem to ignore context and the rest of Scripture.
Read my posts in the Atonement thread for a fuller explanation.
Paul tells us that sin is a "power" that has held sway over mankind. Paul also tells us that from Adam's transgression until Moses sin was not a transgression but it was still sin. Men did not transgress God's law or command in the same manner as Adam's transgression. Jesus tells us that sin is a "power" that has held men in bondage.
Men are slaves to sin. This is what some refer to as a "sin nature". Even the "good" that natural man may do is not of pure motive.
Yes. I am honestly saying that we do not sin in the womb.
We believe the same of each other - which is good because otherwise there would be nothing to discuss.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes. I am honestly saying that we do not sin in the womb.
So you believe each person has the potential to live a sinless life?
How does a baby sin in the womb?
I see it that the baby in the womb is conceived dead in Adam, as his guilt was passed unto him via imputation. God sees that baby in Adam, and as a result, is under condemnation.
We are born already condemned in Adam. Not one thing we did makes us condemned. We’re conceived in this condemned state.
I agree with this. All are born "under the curse".
But I believe that Jesus was speaking of an ultimate condemnation (Judgment).
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
What all do you think is included in the curse?
But what of the flood, Abiram, Dathan and Korah and Pharaoh and his army? All of these show God punishing ppl with death. Also, Herod speaks, ppl say He sounds like God(or a god, can’t remember which) and he’s devoured by worms. God metes out His wrath in physical death, too.
It is true that we do not sin in the womb as a matter of willful choice or action. However, we are in a state of condemnation in the womb, a state of unbelief, a state of sin - "being evil" and thus we are "transgressors from the womb" due to Adam's one act of disobedience. Furthermore, the absolute proof we are sinners by nature - being evil - in the womb is that no one has to teach us to be evil, think evil or do evil as soon as we are outside of the womb as it comes NATURAL. What parents have to teach children beginning as soon as they are able to express themselves is to be good.Yes. I am honestly saying that we do not sin in the womb.
37818
Well-Known Member
So are the elect prior to their regeneration (Ephesians 2:1-2).
Agreed. We were the children of wrath as well.
Do you believe that those who do not believe have been judge already because they have not believed in Christ?
Do you apply John 3:17 to the "elect prior to their regeneration" or only to those who will never believe?
The NASB uses ‘judged already’. The destination of both the saved and lost were sealed when God elected His ppl from before He said, “Let there be light.” So yes, the non-elect have been judged already.
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But you still haven’t addressed my last couple posts.
You have not addressed mine. Do you believe that the lost have been judged already because they do not believe in Christ, that the judgment is that the Light has come into the world and men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil?
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