The point of intoxication

[corndogggy]

Well the original topic was actually way far off from any of this mess... it was directed to those of us who do in fact consume alcohol, and was wondering where do we cross the line for intoxication, assuming we are already drinking to begin with, so I'll just get everybody back on track:

Personally I draw the line when I very first start to feel the slightest bit sloppy, slow, clumsy, stupid, foolish, or if I feel my blood sugar messing up, which gives me a certain kind of headache. That means I've had too much. That is the line. I try to not even hit that line, but I back off immediately and/or eat something if I do hit that point. If I have a drink and I just feel thoughtful, relaxed, slightly more talkative, and things along that nature, I'm totally comfortable with that, but I try to keep it at that level and not beyond. I'm not a big social drinker, so my drinking typically consists of doing something in the yard or watching a movie. I never have any reason to have a hangover.

Typically, doing this keeps me at just one beer on a given drinking day. I'll usually drink maybe twice a week. If one of the days happens to be on a Saturday, I might have two. I emphasize that I'm not chugging, I'll get a high quality microbrew and stretch it out.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

And alcohol has health benefits?

***Moderator note: His Blood---your diagram exceeded Baptist Board rules for posting pictures----if you can go back and provide a link to your original source---that will be fine

Bro. David

 

[ituttut]

Isaiah 65:8 Acts 2:13-15 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Was Peter saying, "it would take an awful lot of new wine to make someone drunk"?

Also:

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Don't drink all the juice!!! :laugh:

Why not? If it is not intoxicating, what is the big deal?

Nicely put.

I personally believe I Timothy 3:2-3 informs a bishop should be sober, or realistic in all matters. As to what ever he drinks he is not to become addicted. He should not be "given" to it.

I understand "new wine" is of short duration, drawn in about four months, and is of a milder flavor with less tannin. Read or heard that somewhere in the past and stuck, so source must have been sanctioned in such matters. Sounds reasonable to me. Perhaps there is a wine master reading these post's, and can advise with expertise in this matter.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

not given to much wine, again, is referring to non-alcoholic wine. I have seen people get sick from drinking too much grape juice personally.

Also, since alcoholic wine was forbidden of God's people, this bears out to be non-alcoholic wine Timothy was being counselled about.

 

[ituttut]

Many will come in that day and say, Lord, lord, we drank alocholic beverages in your name. And He will say, Depart from me, I did not condone it.

Your Bible reads differently from mine. I knew other churches have different Bibles than we in Christ, but I didn't know even there Bibles say what you allow.

I don't know how many times this verse has been posted, by me and others on this board before some stop, read, and comprehend what He tells us. If we keep saying we believe the Bible to be His Word, how can we be truthful if we decide on our own to disavow His Word? "And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". These are "are not my words", but His in the proper context and setting which tells us this is His doing. We go against our heart when we refuse to believe His Word.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

When Christ said Many shall come in that day and say..., He was showing that there would be many excuses. ?here will indeed be those who use drinking alcoholic beverages as an excuse because, 'my pastor said it was ok.' Because, 'my pastor said you made it and drank it.'

Yes, when they make those lamebrained excuses, God will hold them accountable for not studying to show themselves approved unto God.

The Word says alcohol is forbidden. Preconceived notions of man's stinking way of thinking will not be excused when man stands before God.

 

[ituttut]

Post error removing the error

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Your Bible reads differently from mine. I knew other churches have different Bibles than we in Christ, but I didn't know even there Bibles say what you allow.

I don't know how many times this verse has been posted, by me and others on this board before some stop, read, and comprehend what He tells us. If we keep saying we believe the Bible to be His Word, how can we be truthful if we decide on our own to disavow His Word? "And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". These are "are not my words", but His in the proper context and setting which tells us this is His doing. We go against our heart when we refuse to believe His Word.

Again, quit reading the Bible verses on wine with the local ABC store in mind. That alcohol in that verse is not alcoholic, nor can it be made alcoholic just because you say it is.

All you are doing is turning the truth of God into a lie. And we know what He says about that.

 

[ituttut]

not given to much wine, again, is referring to non-alcoholic wine. I have seen people get sick from drinking too much grape juice personally.

Also, since alcoholic wine was forbidden of God's people, this bears out to be non-alcoholic wine Timothy was being counselled about.

Genesis tells us Isaac drank wine. Is Isaac not one of His?

 

[ituttut]

When Christ said Many shall come in that day and say..., He was showing that there would be many excuses. ?here will indeed be those who use drinking alcoholic beverages as an excuse because, 'my pastor said it was ok.' Because, 'my pastor said you made it and drank it.'

Yes, when they make those lamebrained excuses, God will hold them accountable for not studying to show themselves approved unto God.

The Word says alcohol is forbidden. Preconceived notions of man's stinking way of thinking will not be excused when man stands before God.

I see you still do not believe His Word that God gave Noah the recipe, and Noah went overboard.

 

[ituttut]

Again, quit reading the Bible verses on wine with the local ABC store in mind. That alcohol in that verse is not alcoholic, nor can it be made alcoholic just because you say it is.

All you are doing is turning the truth of God into a lie. And we know what He says about that.

Yes, we all are to take note of that.

Closing shop - time to hit the hay.

 

[corndogggy]

alcohol has health benefits?

http://www.azcentral.com/home/wine/articles/0524beerhealth24.html

"Although the French have a high-fat diet, smoke more than Americans and exercise even less, the rate of heart disease is approximately one-third the U.S. heart attack rate..."

 

[corndogggy]

Also, a deep thought occurred to me... if any form of fermentation is bad, then why did God create the laws of physics so that it allows fermentation to even be possible to begin with? The easy way out of this is to simply say "oh, it was the devil's making", but I for one don't believe that the devil has the power to change the laws of physics, I think that's ridiculous.

 

[webdog]

Originally Posted by Blammo
Isaiah 65:8 Acts 2:13-15 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Was Peter saying, "it would take an awful lot of new wine to make someone drunk"?

Also:

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Don't drink all the juice!!! :laugh:

Why not? If it is not intoxicating, what is the big deal?

A side note on Acts 2:13-15. If drinking even "new wine" was sinful...why didn't Peter say "These men aren't drunk...drinking is sin!"? Instead he says it's too early to be drunk.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You guys keep asking the same idiotic questions over and over and over again, even though we have answered them according to the Word of God.

ituttut, Where in the world do you get that God gave Noah the recipe for alcoholic wine? You need to get off the BB and read your Bible more.

As a matter of fact, that would be sound advice for all of you advocates for drinking alcohol.

 

[Helen]

I looked up your 'proof verse' about wine being the poison of an asp. I responded. Here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=33072

You are totally wrong when you claim God said wine is the poison of an asp....unless you are willing to say the grapes also are. That would make grapes, grape juice, grape jelly, vinegar, etc., all poisonous according to the Bible.

So I suggest all you who claim the Bible is saying wine is wrong actually start reading your Bible instead of pulling verses out of context and twisting and turning the meanings. The Song of Moses in Deut. 32 has NOTHING to do with the wine which is drunk. Read it. Please. In context -- as in all of it...

I read it. I found it was not only not saying what you claim it is saying, but that it is saying something far, far different.

So get off your soapbox and read the Bible, OK?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Proverbs 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?

Here, Solomon is asking a question that demands one to reflect upon the forthcoming answer.

Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

In this verse, Solomon answers the question. Notice in Solomon's answer, he does not say it is just the one who drinks to excess (tarries long at the wine), but it is also the one who goes to seek mixed wine (wine made by adding ingredients to the wine to make it intoxicating, as all modern day wines of alcoholic nature are made.)

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Here, Solomon warns against even experiencing the fermented wine. Look thou not upon it is his somemn warning.

Proverbs 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Solomon lets the reader know that if the reader ignores the warning given in the previous verse, the fermented beverage will be as a poisonous serpent to him.

Proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

Solomon gives the reader a description of the sins that are sure to follow as a result of that bite from that fermented, poisonous drink.

Proverbs 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth on the top of the mast.

Alcohol is a depressant. It is a downer, bringing drowsiness to the mind. Alcohol makes people sleep in places they normally would not sleep or in places they are not supposed to sleep.

Proverbs 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

It will cause man to live in such a state that he will be practically oblivious to pain caused by fights or other problems. This is due to the fact that alcohol inhibits the signals in the brain to tell one that they are hurting.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
The fact that the moderation advocates overlook the clear command to abstain in Proverbs 23:31 is evidence that alcohol is decieving them. Solomon is not here saying to refrain from drunkenness, but rather to refrain from drinking in the first place.

To say it is drunkenness that verse 31 is referring to is calling God's Word a lie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I looked up your 'proof verse' about wine being the poison of an asp. I responded. Here: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=33072

You are totally wrong when you claim God said wine is the poison of an asp....unless you are willing to say the grapes also are. That would make grapes, grape juice, grape jelly, vinegar, etc., all poisonous according to the Bible.

So I suggest all you who claim the Bible is saying wine is wrong actually start reading your Bible instead of pulling verses out of context and twisting and turning the meanings. The Song of Moses in Deut. 32 has NOTHING to do with the wine which is drunk. Read it. Please. In context -- as in all of it...

I read it. I found it was not only not saying what you claim it is saying, but that it is saying something far, far different.

So get off your soapbox and read the Bible, OK?

Of course it is saying something different to you, your mind is deceived by that occasional drink that a nurse suggested you take. One third vodka? Put the bottle down and drink from the fountain that satisfies...
The Word of God.

Yes, even their grapes are poison, and their clusters are bitter, because they are growing them for the sole purpose to satisfy their fleshly lust for drunkenness.

Their rock is not our Rock. Our Rock is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Their vines are the vines of Sodom. God destroyed Sodom and Gommorah for their sinful, wicked lifestyles.

 

[corndogggy]

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=213

"Notice in verse 10 the comment that men usually served the good wine first and kept the wine that was not as good to be served lastly so that its quality was not noticed. This had to be a reference to fermented wine, as the alcoholic content of the wine would be more inclined to cause them not to notice bad wine later in the evening after they had a few drinks.

There are many other references to wine throughout the Bible showing that it is actually an alcoholic drink. Now with this scriptural evidence, comes the next question. Is it sinful to drink wine? The answer to this question is that the wine itself is not sinful, because sin is in the heart of man and does not exist in any object of itself. It is the drunkenness and intoxication that comes about when a man drinks too much that causes him sin. The Bible teaches discipline and moderation; even eating too much food is a sin and is called the sin of gluttony in the Bible. "

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I have already given Historical quotes and quotes from Rabbinical priests to show you err in that statement, Corndoggy. Not all wine was fermented in Bible times. And certainly not the wine our Lord made.

You, just like the Pharisees, who were blind guides and hypocrites, are acciusing Christ of being something He could never have been and accusing Him of creating something He could never have created.