1689Dave
Well-Known Member
They are unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Performing a role God did not appoint them to. They would suffer loss as a Christian but remain saved.
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The Poll about the Death Penalty -
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OK, I support the death penalty but I do not support abortion. There are many others like me who have that stance... so where you going with this?
You are suggesting that anyone supporting capital punishment is an unbeliever. Is that true?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
No, the magistrate is ordained of God to kill those deserving of death. But you violate Christ's teaching if you are a believer and assume the magistrate's role.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
It teaches that "Caesar" does not bear the sword in vain... and that if we as believers do well, we should not be afraid of that sword ( Romans 13 ).
God ordained human government especially because we, as a race, do not obey Him.
For example, the Law was not made for a righteous man...one who walks according to God's commandments.
It was made for the disobedient and for those who rebel against Him in their hearts and minds.
Similarly, God-ordained government was instituted by Him as a restraint against sin in this life...
and I take this as meaning mainly for the unbeliever, as they do not seek to obey the Lord in their lives and actions.
I see that it is the right of government to impose whatever penalties fit the crime.
At the end of it all, we as believers have nothing to worry about as long as we are doing what the Lord tells us to do.
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The founding fathers purposely rejected making this country a theocracy as you pointed out for legitimate reasons. We actually are a republic, one that allows different religions free practice under the law. Therefore laws created under a republic can make and can dissolve punitive laws as seen fit by majority rule. Christian values, while important to Christian churches should not dictate policy.
So the magistrate has permission to kill however an ordinary christian does not. Hmmm, then what about the example of home envision. The intruder threatens your family with physical harm, maybe even murder... now what do you do, phone your friendly neighborhood magistrate?
I do not know what you mean by “suffers a loss” perhaps you can explain your statement. Scripture would help
So David, I am glad you stepped in to clarify. Your statement involves A Roman Caesar I.e., an occupying military force with ruling authority over a conquered people... in this case again the Romans. So to clarify, Paul is saying that you as a Jew must accept subjugation and the rule of law set up by the ruling authority over your own Torah written laws.It teaches that "Caesar" does not bear the sword in vain... and that if we as believers do well, we should not be afraid of that sword ( Romans 13 ).
God ordained human government especially because we, as a race, do not obey Him.
For example, the Law was not made for a righteous man...one who walks according to God's commandments.
It was made for the disobedient and for those who rebel against Him in their hearts and minds.
Similarly, God-ordained government was instituted by Him as a restraint against sin in this life...
and I take this as meaning mainly for the unbeliever, as they do not seek to obey the Lord in their lives and actions.
I see that it is the right of government to impose whatever penalties fit the crime.
At the end of it all, we as believers have nothing to worry about as long as we are doing what the Lord tells us to do.
I can well see how the Jewish Sanhedrin would be perplexed by Paul’s teaching.
I’m certain that the magistrate in Paul’s time was Roman. Wonder how they felt when the magistrate came to imprison them for not exalting Caesar as a god above Yahweh or in the Christian world Jesus the Christ.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not smart. Christian values should be according to God's will. It was the Christian aka Baptist values which helped give us our religous freedom. Prior each State except Rhode Island had a State Church.
Very odd conclusion there. Of course I consider rape a crime.
I was asking if you had a passage in mind.
Not that I know of.
You are making some very strange connections.
I ask if you have a passage in mind about rape and you assume I believe rape is not a crime.
I provide Biblical guidance to "expel the wicked" from the Church and you ask if there is such a place today where there are no Christians.
I assume you do not have Murphy’s for breakfast....?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Believers never used violence to defend themselves under the New Covenant.. You are adding to scripture to say they did. What makes more sense? As a believer sacrificing your life to Christ's teaching about nonviolence? Wearing a martyr's crown forever. And Enjoying an honorable escape from this wicked world? Or sinning by killing your foe and rotting away in a nursing home and going to heaven empty-handed?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It's wood, hay, stubble works that amount to nothing. VS works Christ honors that lead to a better resurrection.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Who did Jesus kill, or any NT believer for that matter? We need to stop thinking like the world and begin thinking like Christ.
If we were to poll Jon and Jane Q Public in the USA to ask the question as to religious convictions having status over and above secular conviction, what do you think you would see? Well if American lifestyle today is any indication.
So you are expecting admittedly sinful people to begin thinking like Christ?!? Come on, get real... first, who rules the world?
It would be appreciated if you would answer the question straightforward.
What makes sense is defending yourself and your family. If that involves deadly tactics then so be it. I have no ambitions to be a martyr in this world or the next. But your sense of martyrdom is quite frankly bizarre. We’re you raised a Catholic?
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