The Problem of Evil.

[delizzle]

1. If God is omnipotent, He would have the power to stop evil.

2. If God is onmibenevolent, He would be willing to stop evil.

3. If God is omniscient, He would have foreseen the existence of evil and would have prevented it.

So if God is both willing and able to stop and prevent evil, why does evil exist? I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Note: the intent of this thread is to provoke a thoughtful discussion that would deepen our faith by challenging our presuppositions. We ought to be respectful. However, we should welcome honest criticism if we are to ever find truth and mature in our faith.

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[Iconoclast]

Why would you believe or suggest that a Perfect God could , would, or should do anything different that what He has purposed to do?

 

[TCassidy]

1. If God is omnipotent, He would have the power to stop evil.

No "if" about it. He is.

2. If God is onmibenevolent, He would be willing to stop evil.

That would depend on what you mean by "benevolent?" Do you mean what you think is benevolent? Or what I think is benevolent? Or what God thinks is benevolent?

And the same question for "evil?" Do you mean what you think is evil? Or what I think is evil? Or what God thinks is evil?

3. If God is omniscient, He would have foreseen the existence of evil and would have prevented it.

No "if" about it. He is. But why should He have prevented all evil? He has a plan. It is much better then our plans. He knows what He is doing. He has a reason for allowing what we may think of as "evil" or "non-benevolent." Trust Him. He is much wiser than we are.

It seems to me your question is attempting to argue against the very existence of God. If He is not Omnipotent, He is not God. If He is not Omniscient He is not God.

Are you sure you are on the right Internet forum?

 

[delizzle]

Why would you believe or suggest that a Perfect God could , would, or should do anything different that what He has purposed to do?

Can you please elaborate?

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[thatbrian]

1. If God is omnipotent, He would have the power to stop evil.

2. If God is onmibenevolent, He would be willing to stop evil.

3. If God is omniscient, He would have foreseen the existence of evil and would have prevented it.

So if God is both willing and able to stop and prevent evil, why does evil exist? I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Note: the intent of this thread is to provoke a thoughtful discussion that would deepen our faith by challenging our presuppositions. We ought to be respectful. However, we should welcome honest criticism if we are to ever find truth and mature in our faith.

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Romans 9 gives the only indication as to the why question.

You're assuming that if you can see no good reason for evil and suffering then there can be none.

 

[delizzle]

It seems to me your question is attempting to argue against the very existence of God. If He is not Omnipotent, He is not God. If He is not Omniscient He is not God.

Are you sure you are on the right Internet forum?

Well...this question has been used by skeptics to attack the existence of God. Much apostasy has resulted from this question. Many Christians who are suffering are asking themselves this question as we speak. How do you respond? If God is both willing and able to stop and prevent evil, why does it exist?

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[delizzle]

Romans 9 gives the only indication as to the why question.

You're assuming that if you can see no good reason for evil and suffering then there can be none.

Is that how you would respond to a father who's 9 year old daughter is dying of cancer? Read Romans 9?

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[delizzle]

That would depend on what you mean by "benevolent?" Do you mean what you think is benevolent? Or what I think is benevolent? Or what God thinks is benevolent?

Onmibenevolent means that God is wholly Good. If God is omnibenevolent, evil cannot be within Him nor can it be emanated or created by Him. As the supremely sovereign creator, what then is "evil"? The skeptic will argue that if God is the creator of everything in existence and all things were created through Him (Gen. 1:1; John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11) and evil is something that exists, God must have created evil too. After all, it is written, “…I am the LORD, and there is no other. I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things” (Isa. 45:6-7). It seems as though that scripture confirms the skeptic’s claim. Furthermore, denying either God or evil leads to dualism or pantheism.

How would you address this issue?

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[Benjamin]

Huge and interesting subject, P.O.E. !! I don’t really have a lot of time for this but maybe I can offer some food for thought on this subject:

1. If God is omnipotent, He would have the power to stop evil.

God IS Omnipotent, and does have the power to stop evil. In fact, I believe it part of His plan to do just that and that day will come.

2. If God is onmibenevolent, He would be willing to stop evil.

God IS Omnibenevolent, and His being willing to stop evil doesn’t come into a question of willingness and will be on His Own terms.

3. If God is omniscient, He would have foreseen the existence of evil and would have prevented it.

God IS Omniscient, and this statement, along with the first two, when breaking down the logic merely heads in the direction of begging the question through attempting to attribute evil to God and/or presumes knowing God’s purposes and/or, maybe worst of all, placing one’s judgment on God for allowing evil to exist. I believe evil has to do with the design of His creatures and it is in God’s truth concerning their nature wherein they are solely responsible for the evil which exists in the world.

God created the world as only good, …err actually “very good” (Gen 1:31) but man introduced evil in his prideful disobedience. Man, in his gifted nature, believed he could perfectly judge between good and evil and wished to be as God. (Gen 3:22) Therein (having knowledge of good and evil), man fell short as there is, and can only be, only One God, One King who is to judge all things.

Man loves to look for excuses for his evil:

Rom 1:20-22

(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Rather than being thankful for his wonderful design, man, would rather say they were forced to be in this world and some like to claim they had no choices in life but to be tempted and use it as an excuse to avoid responsibility by claiming inability either way:

Jas 1:13

(13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But God’s plan in creation is without doubt perfect and just in every way and man will be held responsible for his evil that he brought into the world while being judged for his evil in Truth, but for His Grace:

Deu 32:3-6

(3) Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

(4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

(5) They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

(6) Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

 

[delizzle]

God created the world as only good, …err actually “very good” (Gen 1:31) but man introduced evil in his prideful disobedience. Man, in his gifted nature, believed he could perfectly judge between good and evil and wished to be as God. (Gen 3:22)

I really appreciate your response. You brought up some really good points. However, you stated that "man introduced evil in his prideful disobedience". Who or what introduced this "prideful disobedience"? Meaning, what is the origin of evil and sin? What caused Lucifer to rebel?


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[thatbrian]

Is that how you would respond to a father who's 9 year old daughter is dying of cancer? Read Romans 9?

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Was that the question you initially asked?

Pose your question to Job, and see what his reply is. . .

 

[delizzle]

Was that the question you initially asked?

Pose your question to Job, and see what his reply is. . .

No. Admittedly it is not the original question. Its just that the problem of evil is an extremely practical issue, not just a theological one. Which is why I brought up the father and child. I am just curious as to how we provide comfort to these Christians who are having trouble trying to reconcile the existence of God in the face of evil.

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[TCassidy]

Onmibenevolent means that God is wholly Good.

I know that. I asked for what YOU mean by it.

If God is omnibenevolent, evil cannot be within Him nor can it be emanated or created by Him.

Yes, we know.

God must have created evil too.

Non sequitur. You must distinguish between the Decretal and Permissive Will of God. When you come to understand that you will have begun to understand origins.

It seems as though that scripture confirms the skeptic’s claim.

Then you have failed to understand the point.

Is that how you would respond to a father who's 9 year old daughter is dying of cancer?

I am a parent who lost a little boy 41 years ago. It was a difficult time, but by faith I trusted in God that He had a plan and His plan is Perfect.

Trust God. He knows what He is doing.

 

[TCassidy]

Well...this question has been used by skeptics to attack the existence of God.

You will have to take that up with the skeptics.

 

[thatbrian]

No. Admittedly it is not the original question. Its just that the problem of evil is an extremely practical issue, not just a theological one. Which is why I brought up the father and child. I am just curious as to how we provide comfort to these Christians who are having trouble trying to reconcile the existence of God in the face of evil.

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I don't think that the problem is that difficult for Christians. The Fall explains a lot, and individual sin, the rest. God created mankind and his environment, "good".

We have grown so accustomed to putting God in the dock that even your OP isn't shocking (to most), but it should be, as a couple of wise brothers have already pointed out.

"Skeptics" (there are no such beasts, BTW. Read Romans 1) have no explanation, compensation, or comfort for suffering. Have you considered that? Ask them for a defense of suffering and evil from their worldview. What would they say?

 

[JonC]

Is that how you would respond to a father who's 9 year old daughter is dying of cancer? Read Romans 9?

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While that is the response Scripture provides, that God Himself has subjected creation to futility for a purpose greater than those suffering and groaning, I doubt many here would give that answer to a father who has lost a child. The reason is appropriatness, not that such teachings are not true but that the immediate situation calls for compassion and the bringing forth of other truths.

Along the same lines, I wouldn't tell a man who just lost his atheistic son the boy is condemned to Hell. While it may be the truth, doing so would be an unChristian way to wield that truth. In this contest, truth absent love and compassion is worthless fact.

 

[Benjamin]

I really appreciate your response. You brought up some really good points. However, you stated that "man introduced evil in his prideful disobedience". Who or what introduced this "prideful disobedience"? Meaning, what is the origin of evil and sin? What caused Lucifer to rebel?


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I use the story of creation a lot to explain why evil is allowed to exist and relate it to man being designed with free will among his attributes and where in truth the responsibility for evil rests.


Prideful”, relates to the special gift of being created in God’s own image and likeness, to be given the attributes of sense, reason, intellect and the freedom of will to choose. In his pride of design, man, thinking he is pretty cool and should take it to next level, chose not to obey God and when hearing the lies of Satan that his eyes would be open and they would as gods, to know good and evil, man used his free will that he was given.

The result is that in man, of his own choosing, adding the attribute to know good and evil he fell short of God’s judgment of it, therein man was no longer only good as created but now responsible for evil in his disobedience of God.

Did God know man would make this choice? Of course, He is Omniscient, which is why before the foundation of the world, in love for His creation, God promised His Son for His creatures’ redemption and had prepared the Way.

Something here I might point out is the question, did God then recreate man to no longer have these attributes which included freedom of the will and choice? So that he would no longer free will? No, what change took place was that man gained the attribute of the knowledge of good and evil of his own doing and is fully and wholly responsible for the falling short in his judgment of it. Man was now dead in sin, by nature he would miss the mark of perfection, for there is only One God who can make such judgment perfectly.

Then comes, God told man that now he had to use this same ability, attributes/freedom of will, to put his hand forth and take of the tree of life.

Gen 3:22

(22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

And unless man, who was now dead in sin, separated from God, unable to meet God’s perfection necessary to live with Him in is Kingdom forever would put forth his hand and “take” the offer given to him of the way of life, as per God’s judgment/providence/, well, he will remain dead! That Way would be revealed in good time so that we could know His truth, love His truth and make that choice. – no excuses, personally, I’d hate to go around sounding as if I had a grudge against being created, not being thankful, but rather claiming I didn’t and don’t have a choice but to accept His offer of Grace freely. Yeah, God is powerful to be able to make us confess belief and accept His "gift" but where is the real love in being dragged, forced and having no choice, anyway?

 

[Reformed]

Can you please elaborate?

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Icon asked a straightforward question. I have been following the thread and really want to hear your answer.

 

[delizzle]

You will have to take that up with the skeptics.

Or we can take an honest look at the question and apply some apologetics.

First, all of the problems associated with evil have been weaponized by skeptics in a full-frontal assault on the very existence of God. Unfortunately, many skeptics in academia have succeeded in using these arguments to encourage apostasy.

Second, the problems are universally felt around the globe regardless of nationality, race, gender, age, or geographical location.

Third and most importantly, the problem is not merely academic, but a harsh reality that people face today. Admittedly, this is my motivation for researching this topic, having the tragic experience of losing a wife to a seemingly preventable evil. I believe that faith is essential. However, if I depended entirely on an unjustified blind faith, I would not be a Christian today.

We are instructed to “take up the shield of faith” to defend ourselves against the “flaming arrows of the evil one.” (Eph. 6:16). However, it is not enough to settle for the paper shield of blind faith. I believe that those who remain entirely dependent on an unjustifiable blind faith are leaving
themselves vulnerable. God does not desire blind faith (Matt. 22:37). Instead, we ought to have a reasonable and justifiable faith that is grounded in biblical truths (1 Peter 3:15).

The reasons for these instructions are clear. Having faith that is reasonably justified is essential to our spiritual protection. Like a warrior forging a shield for battle, I pray that my apologetical attempt to address the problems associated with evil may assist others in forging a strong, justifiable faith, lest it withers in the heat of the day (Matt 13:6,20-21).

You may be comfortable settling for blind faith and nonchalantly kicking the can to the skeptics, but I am not. Too many people have turned against God because of this very reason and I am not going to lazily watch them cast away because it wasn't my problem.

So I would appreciate it if we take a serious look at the issue so that in the event a newly orphaned child askes you, "Why God would do such a thing?" you will have more to say than " Read Romans 9 and stop asking stupid questions."

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[delizzle]

"Skeptics" (there are no such beasts, BTW. Read Romans 1) have no explanation, compensation, or comfort for suffering. Have you considered that? Ask them for a defense of suffering and evil from their worldview. What would they say?

At this point it may be appropriate to mention that the reason why I am attending seminary school is to eventually become a Chaplain in the Navy. Back in 2014, I had a wife who was murdered and it was because of the grace of God and diligent study of His word, that my faith endured. God called me to use my testimony to encourage the suffering as a Chaplain. Afteralll, who would be better to give comfort to a grieving widow than someone who has experienced it As you can probably imagine, many service members experience serious tragedies and hardships and they come to the Chaplain looking for answers. I would like to have more to tell them than just "God can do whatever He wants because He's God. So who are we to complain?"

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