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The problem of sin .
- Thread starter Barry Johnson
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Barry Johnson
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Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I believe we are ' in him ' the question is how ? If it really matters ?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Sir we are done, I cited but you are in Christ by God's doing, and you claimed it did not mean what it said. Now you claim I never cited it. Fiddlesticks
Folks, do you see a yes or a no. I am done...
I provided many verses, but they did not help. Your implication I did not provide several verses that explicitly say God puts us into Christ is fiction. I am done.
Ridiculous diversion from the topic. John 6 is in the New Testament, and is New Covenant Theology. You ridiculous claim people were given to Christ under the Old Covenant is without a shed of biblical support. Pure fiction. I am done.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
The new testament only starts with the death of Christ . Heb 9
16¶For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood
So it makes a difference when you use John 6 without noticing John 10.32
Universal atonement does mean that universal salvation is possible. Because Christ died for the sin of the whole world. It does not mean that universal salvation will occur. It is only implemented when one places faith in Christ.
God can judge one because they reject Christ and remain in their sins. I have shown you that it is about the Federal Headship of Adam and Christ. All in Adam are condemned because of Adam. All in Christ are saved due to Christ's sacrifice. If you are in Adam, your lost. If you're in Christ, you are saved.
It is Adam's sin that condemns the human race. They sin because he made them sinners. All of the worlds sins are the result of Adams sin. In paying the price for Adams sin, Christ paid for all sins. Those in Adam can do nothing to get out of Adam...except believe. A lot of good people will go hell. Their goodness will not get them out of Adam. They are still guilty because of Adam.
The Last Adam, Christ, produces a new race of man. Christ paid for Adams sin and became the Head of a new race. Entrance into Adams race was physical birth. Entrance into Christ's race is faith. Because Christ died for the sin of Adam, then all sins were paid for. If that is not so, then Christ cannot die as a Federal Head. Which means there is only one person He can die for. Are you the lucky one?
That belief is a gift and work of God on our part changes nothing. I agree with election. That doesn't discount the need for Federal Headship. You cannot believe in Limited Atonement and Federal Headship. And if you reject Federal Headship, Christ can only die for one person.
Even if you want to say, Christ died only for the elect, Christ still died as a Federal Head. He died for Adams sin that caused all the elect to be sinners. In dying for Adams sin, He died for all the worlds sins also. If you don't like Christ dying as a Federal Head for the elect, then only one is elect.
Quantrill
Deflection on display.
The Bible teaches:
1) God alone credits a believer's faith as righteousness or not. Romans 4:4-5; Romans 4:23-24.
2) God alone puts people in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
3) When placed in Christ (in Him, in Jesus, in the Beloved, etc) the problem of sin is solved, the sin burden, what God holds against the individual due to sin, is removed because of the precious blood of Jesus.To deny these facts is to deny the very gospel of Christ.
The fiction of automatic salvation when you believe should not be tolerated. Matthew 7 clearly teaches people can think they are "believers" and yet they were never put into Christ. The second and third soils of Matthew 13 believed to a degree, but they were never put into Christ, because they fell away. (Those that leave us were never of us.) The same fiction also is present with the idea that if you pay the ransom, those ransomed are automatically redeemed. The actual doctrine is God has purchased the right to redeem whom ever He pleases, and it pleases Him to redeem those of His choosing, those whose faith He credits as righteousness.
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Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Great. I don't know why your labouring on this so much. My point was getting clarification through verses to explain how we are ' in him ' . Not just saying over and over " were put in him " assuming that's what the verses are saying . I agree we are in him . The whole of ephesians 1 labours on this.
You, Sir, implied I had not provided a scriptural basis of the statement God puts us into Christ, after I had provided at least two verses. One you dismissed, making the point, God seemed to be the Holy Spirit rather than the Father, which of course did not alter the fact God in one of His Persons, puts us into Christ. Next, since Colossians 1:13 says transferred into the kingdom of His beloved Son, that did not mean the same as transferred into Christ. Fiddlesticks. And no answer was given for how we are "in Him" (in Jesus, in Christ, in the Beloved" in more than a dozen verses. No, it was a straight up denial of the obvious.
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