The "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" used by KJVOs is false.

[robycop3]

I take you word for it. I personally think they are near extinct.

And I'd like to do my part in making them extinct, as well as many other believers of other false doctrines, and cult members, especially pseudo/quasi-Christian cults such as JW, LDS, SDA. I know my part is tiny, but one candle light is better than ignoring the dark. I have felt called by God to work & speak out against false doctrines & cults for many years, beginning with helping de-program Moonies, & even more-so with the advent of the internet.

 

[JD731]

If you believe Psalms 12:7 speaks of the word of God in verse 6. You are wrong per 1611 KJV verse 7 note.

That is a non answer.

 

[robycop3]

Which sounds quite pious of you until people start noticing your own man-made doctrines with no scriptural support, such as God creating people other than Adam & Eve, or Britain and the U.S. being the lost descendants of Joseph.

There's the Scriptural command against incest, & PLENTY of Scriptural evidence pointing to the "Joseph" thingie. Much of it is in the thread "Are the British Empire & USA in prophecy?"

 

[JD731]

And I'd like to do my part in making them extinct, as well as many other believers of other false doctrines, and cult members, especially pseudo/quasi-Christian cults such as JW, LDS, SDA. I know my part is tiny, but one candle light is better than ignoring the dark. I have felt called by God to work & speak out against false doctrines & cults for many years, beginning with helping de-program Moonies, & even more-so with the advent of the internet.

Last eve I passed beside a blacksmith's door
And heard the anvil ring the vesper chime;
When looking in, I saw upon the floor,
Old hammers worn with beating years of time.

"How many anvils have you had," said I,
"To wear and batter these hammers so?"
"Just one," said he; then with a twinkling eye,
"The anvil wears the hammers out, you know."

And so, I thought, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed - the hammers gone.
​

You too will pass.

 

[robycop3]

That is a non answer.

While V6 speax of God's words, V7 is about people.

 

[robycop3]

Last eve I passed beside a blacksmith's door
And heard the anvil ring the vesper chime;
When looking in, I saw upon the floor,
Old hammers worn with beating years of time.

"How many anvils have you had," said I,
"To wear and batter these hammers so?"
"Just one," said he; then with a twinkling eye,
"The anvil wears the hammers out, you know."

And so, I thought, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages, skeptics blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed - the hammers gone.
​

You too will pass.

The KJVO myth is on its way out. After all, it's completely false, & more people are finding that out. There are quite a few FORMER KJVOs now. (I never was one.)

 

[37818]

That is a non answer.

Your own answer is a non answer.

 

[rlvaughn]

There's the Scriptural command against incest,...

And the scriptures plainly say that Adam & Eve are the two people God created and that we all descend from them.

...& PLENTY of Scriptural evidence pointing to the "Joseph" thingie. Much of it is in the thread "Are the British Empire & USA in prophecy?"

Yea, right. British Israelism in American roby-garb does not a scriptural doctrine make.

Romans 2:1.

 

[JD731]

The KJVO myth is on its way out. After all, it's completely false, & more people are finding that out. There are quite a few FORMER KJVOs now. (I never was one.)

It is about both and I will prove it scripturally when I get time.The word of God is and has been tried and perseveres and the people of God, who in this case in Psa 12 is the remnant of Israel in the tribulation.

You are believing only in the message of God, and you have that wrong. You do not believe in the words and trying to convince you of anything with words is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

 

[JD731]

And the scriptures plainly say that Adam & Eve are the two people God created and that we all descend from them. Yea, right. British Israelism in American roby-garb does not a scriptural doctrine make.

Romans 2:1.

I did not know this but it makes sense since you mention it.

 

[Reynolds]

Perhaps.

Here is what is true about Psalm 12. It is a prophecy and not one word of it has been fulfilled yet in a practical and final sense. It is a prayer of Israel through David for deliverance. It is not a statement on bible translations. That does not mean however that it is not true that the words of the LORD are pure words. KJV believers agree with God that his words are pure words. People like you believe the message of God is pure at best. That is a different approach to the scriptures. It is fundamentally different.

There can be no other reason for translation boards to continually translate what they say they believe to be the inspired words of God into the same language scores of times using different words. The language is not changing that quickly so that cannot be the reason for doing it. Then, the committees approach the production of their bibles with different translation philosophies. They optimize, or use a dynamic equivalence, or paraphrase. At least a very few use formal equivalence.

Now, here is some JD731 logic. If we have all these various translations into the English with all these various translation philosophies plus paraphrases thrown in and all of them taken from what has been agreed upon as the inspired manuscripts, then it is true that people who subscribe to these philosophies do not believe in inspired words but an inspired message. Then to have us assured by the proponents of these works that nothing is lost or compromised in any of them and we would have no less knowledge of God and his doctrines by studying one or all of them because they all are equally the word of God proves my logic that it is not the words of God that are pure and are settled in heaven but the message of God. What else could be true? These translations vary in the number of words as much as 65,000 words, according to my research. So, one can get the same message as God gave originally and it does not really matter what words one reads.

This is an example of this working out in real time. I talked to a Calvinist about 1 John 2:2, which says, "And he (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."

When I pointed that out to my Calvinist friend that this passage says the whole world was propitiated by his sacrifice, he said sure, that is what the words say but that is not the message. The message is that he did not propitiate God for the sins of the whole world but only for a few. So, the message took precedence over the words.

"In due time Christ died for the ungodly." Well, that is what the words say but that is not the message. One gets the message, I was told, by considering the whole bible and not the individual words.

This is the difference between KJV bible believers and proponents of MV's. We believe the words are inspired of God and we do not have the mandate to present them in any format and abbreviation that we desire. The practice of MV believers reveals what they believe about inspired words and how they think of passages like Psalm 12 where it is said by the Psalmist that "the words of the LORD are pure words."

Why am I wrong?

I will go along with you and for sale of discussion say everything you said is true. (I don't believe that, but just for sale of discussion)

How can you prove the KJV is That version that is correct? Which KJV version?

 

[JD731]

Your own answer is a non answer.

No it is not.

 

[JD731]

I will go along with you and for sale of discussion say everything you said is true. (I don't believe that, but just for sale of discussion)

How can you prove the KJV is That version that is correct? Which KJV version?

That is not going along with me. Do you believe God has a message for mankind that is expressed in the words of men, who optimize and translate with dynamic equivalence what you say you believe is the inspired words of God, while saying you believe the statement in Psalm 12 that the words of the LORD are pure words? And declare that no doctrine is compromised in any translation except the KJV.

There is no use talking to you if you give me an honest answer to this question. You do not believe in the words of God so you have a different definition for the word "pure" than do I.

We are not talking about the same thing.

 

[Logos1560]

Do you believe God has a message for mankind that is expressed in the words of men, who optimize and translate with dynamic equivalence what you say you believe is the inspired words of God

Do you try to ignore the facts that the KJV has many added words for which it has no original-language words of Scripture, that the KJV does not provide any English word for some original-language words of Scripture in its underlying texts, or that the KJV has some non-literal, non-word-for-word dynamic equivalent renderings, suggesting that you do not apply the same measures/standards to it that you suggest for other English translations?

Perhaps your inconsistent view believes the same thing that you accuses others of believing.

 

[Logos1560]

You are believing only in the message of God, and you have that wrong. You do not believe in the words and trying to convince you of anything with words is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

Perhaps you in effect believe the same thing since you have not indicated that you believe in the actual, specific, exact preserved words of God as found in the preserved original-language manuscript copies of Scripture.

How can anyone convince you of anything with words if you make use of inconsistent, unjust measures/standards concerning the words of God given by inspiration to the prophets and apostles?

 

[37818]

No it is not.

No it is not what? More of a non answer.
Psalms 12:6 speaks of God's word. Psalms 12:7 speaks of persons. The translation of "them" in verse 7 is of the Hebrew "him."

 

[JD731]

A person cannot try the word of God until he himself is tried by the word of God. God makes promises. We receive them but we are tried by them when we obey them by faith. Following is an example. If one remembers God had said he was going to raise up a great nation through the son of Abraham and Sarah. They were past child bearing years when the miracle occurred and Isaac was born. A few years later God told Abraham to offer Isaac as a sacrifice in spite of the fact that he knew the promise of God through this son. Could it be accomplished if he obeyed God. The human answer is no but God was trying Abraham and God knew what he would do. Abraham did not.

So, there was a double trial going on when Abraham offered Isaac and this is what is said about him.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Psa 105:17 He sent a man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant:
18 Whose feet they hurt with fetters: he was laid in iron:
19 Until the time that his word came: the word of the Lord tried him.
20 The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go free.

Here is a psalm with the exact same time frame as Psa 12.

Psa 66:8 O bless our God, ye people, (Israel remnant) and make the voice of his praise to be heard:
9 Which holdeth our soul in life, and suffereth not our feet to be moved.

10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. (we know it is seven times from Psalm 12 and the Revelation)
11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins.

12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.
13 I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows,
14 Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken, when I was in trouble.

2 Sam 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all them that trust in him.

Psalm 12 is in the context of the above.

 

[Reynolds]

That is not going along with me. Do you believe God has a message for mankind that is expressed in the words of men, who optimize and translate with dynamic equivalence what you say you believe is the inspired words of God, while saying you believe the statement in Psalm 12 that the words of the LORD are pure words? And declare that no doctrine is compromised in any translation except the KJV.

There is no use talking to you if you give me an honest answer to this question. You do not believe in the words of God so you have a different definition for the word "pure" than do I.

We are not talking about the same thing.

You gotta tell me which KJV version first. Also gotta tell me why it's the only correct version. We can then deal with properly dividing it.

 

[robycop3]

And the scriptures plainly say that Adam & Eve are the two people God created and that we all descend from them. Yea, right. British Israelism in American roby-garb does not a scriptural doctrine make.

Romans 2:1.

I can only post what's in the Bible. There's clearly a command against incest, which is the best hint for an answer to what's actually an unanswerable question, as there's no Scriptural hint about who Cain's wife was.

And the Scriptural statements are plain that God had Jacob pronounce massive blessings upon the descendants of Ephraim & Manasseh. And he also prophesied "the birthright is Joseph's." Joseph himself already had great blessings. And Gen. 22:17 says Abe's descendants shall possess the gates of their enemies. WHO MADE & POSSESSED THE SUEZ CANAL? WHO MADE & POSSESSED THE PANAMA CANAL? WHO CONTROLLED THE STRAIT OF GIBRALTAR? This was never bestowed in the ancient past, but it's in Scripture & MUST be fulfilled. If you have other candidates for this birthright blessing, let's see'em.

 

[David Kent]

The fact David wrote prophetically is most obvious.
Which KJV you use?
Got to be a 1611. If not, you not using real King James. The only KJV only I ever got in an argument with was a fellow deacon at our church. I heard so much about his 1611 that I brought a real 1611. He couldn't read it and proceeded to tell me it was not a 1611, his Bible was a 1611. Everyone else there knew who was right.We all laughed.

As I understand it, the 7 times according to kjvo purists refers to previous English versions ending with the KJV. The "perfect" Kjv being the 1905 Cambridge version, at least by some of them.