Palatka51 said:
It is a curious thing that the pretrib rapture is preached primarily in the US and I couldn't agree with you more RD2. I like to base what I believe on; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
I beseach, plead, pray, and suggest: When you quote scripture
please tell me which Version and which Edition (if known).
We Bereans are going to check you out to see if you can cut
and paste good. Thank you.
I also base my pretribualtion rapture2 pre-millinnial Second Coming
of Jesus post-tribulation -- on 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
but on this version:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes:
for that day shall not come,
except there come a departing first,
and that that man of sinne be disclosed,
euen the sonne of perdition,
Yep, when the Lord comes to get His own, we
(rather dead or alive) will be departing this
earth {AKA: Rapture2 = rapture1 + resurrection1
at the beginning of the Tribulation (on antichrist &
bad guys) Time Period}.
This scripture is also clearer reading than yours:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV1611 Edition):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes,
for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sinne bee reuealed,
the sonne of perdition,
(ain't it strange how some folk say that in 1820
a guy called John Nelson Darby /he didn't publish much
about this matter until 1848, but that doesn't stop
those who wish to discredit the pretribualtion rapture
doctrine
/ )
//It is a curious thing that the pretrib rapture
is preached primarily in the US ... //
1. Any data to suggest that statement to be true?
2. what is strange or curious about it?
I get hassled cause I'm a Baptist and studied the matter
on my own /I am retired now & have more time to study
and write stuff/.
Here is my writing about 2 Thess chapter 2:
-------------------------------------------
The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873 Edition):
But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.
But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul -- he didn't endure
to the end."
Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be
caught up (LATIN: raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus
we shall
always be with the Lord.
18
Therefore comfort one another with these words[/u].
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.
I've underlined a command to comfort each
other with these things. I personally don't see how
we can comfort each other with 'Jesus is going to
come get us at the end of the Tribulation period'.
So I use 'Jesus is going to come get us at the end of
the age which is before the Tribulation Period starts.
Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):
1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,
I underlined "our gathering together to Him,
we ask you" in verse 1 and
the falling away comes first.
The second is the only mention of the first
in the rest of the chapter.
The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.
While the KJV uses "falling away" here, the
English versions before the KJV used a
form of "departure" - again, the idea of
someone leaving this world as in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Geneva Bible):
Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall
not come, except there come a departing first, and that
that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition,
There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.
1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Millinnial Kingdom period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Moriah north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.
But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture; they could happen
before the rapture. They do not HAVE TO
HAPPEN before the imminent pretribulation
rapture.
