The Rapture when is it?

[Calypsis4]

The future is of course for Church and Israel united.

Eventually; after the 2nd coming of Jesus (the VISIBLE 2nd coming). Rev., 1:7.

Jacob's trouble was the immediate trouble of the Babylonians.

No. Jeremiah 30: 7-8 speaks of the tribulation period, not the captivity in Babylon.

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

The prophecy describes the most dreadful day of world history. Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar is not mentioned in that entire chapter. Read it for yourself. ('his yoke' refers to Antichrist, not Nebuchadnezzar nor the other kings of Babylon, neither does it refer to Artaxerxes because none of them fit the details of the prophecy).

The proof that it was not Babylon nor it's kings that were in view here: Jeremiah 30 vs 11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make -- a full end of all nations -- whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee:

When did the Lord destroy all those nations that scattered the Jews? When did He make a full end of them all? Syria is still here. Persia (Iran) is still here. Arabia is still here. Egypt is still here. Yet I challenge you to give the date and time and name those nations that He supposedly FULLY destroyed. This chapter speaks of a yet future time when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled and not in the time of the kings of Babylon or Persia.

The Days of vengeance were the days of tribulation when Jerusalem and the Jewish kingdom was destroyed by the Romans.

But Titus, the Roman legionaire did not declare himself to be God in the temple nor did he offer the abomination of desolation as Jesus said Antichrist would do. So Titus was not the Antichrist. That was only the beginning of the 'days of vengeance.' You are missing the point of what happened to the unbelieving Jews for 20 centuries since then. Ex: Hitler & the Nazi's were just a part of those 'days'. There is more to come.

Also, Antiochus Epiphanes could NOT have been the Antichrist because he lived and did what he did in offering a sow on the altar of the temple in 265 B.C. ...........long before Jesus prophesied that Antichrist would do this. So you are forced by the logic of scripture and history to admit that the event prophesied is yet future. Antiochus was a type of Antichrist; that's all.

Yes Jesus will come to Jerusalem .

• Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
• 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
• 12 ¶ Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day’s journey.

The scriptures are right, but You are not telling the truth. The fact is that Jesus did NOT come back to earth visibly as the angels said he would and you cannot offer any historical evidence that He did so. He ascended from the Mt. of Olives VISIBLY and He will return VISIBLY to the Mt. of Olives just as Zechariah 14:4 tells us that He will. That HAS NOT happened yet in human history and you are in serious error.

Same way, not "to the air" as the Brethren teach.

You mean as Paul teaches us?
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Have you not noticed that a prince did come and his people did destroy the temple and the city? If not show where the temple is now

I already answered this above. Titus was not the Antichrist and never claimed to be God. Antichrist will claim to be God in the coming newly built temple. I have two photos in my files showing some of the stones that were thrown down by Titus's legions. Since the Jews did not repent and make Jesus their Messiah the Lord took everything away from them and suffering and persecution became their lot for many centuries. BUT when Jesus comes again(visibly, physically) the Jews will accept Him as their Messiah and the entire nation will not only be saved but the Jews will rejoice with all the Christian survivors of the great tribulation.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This did NOT happen in A.D. 66-70 or any other time in history. The curse of the 'days of Vengeance' continued for the Jews to this day and will continue because they would not accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

Oh dear. When you see the abomination of desolation, that is when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its Desolation is nigh.

That is when the desolation began. It isn't over yet.

The desolation was on Jerusalem and Judea as it was those in the city and country who were to flee to the mountains when they saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem.

Some of this may have happened in A.D. 70 but it will happen again in the future.

You are missing extremely important details that should make a difference for any honest person and I have mentioned several of those details in my replies to you. You are responsible before God for the errors you have given and I urge you strongly to reconsider what you have believed because those errors are very serious.

I would expect that. When I was in the Brethren they acted like that.

Why continue to haggle with someone who is unyielding and dishonest in his treatment of God's Word? Besides that, I need to absent myself from spending too much time on the board. There are other things that are more needful.

 

[David Kent]

Eventually; after the 2nd coming of Jesus (the VISIBLE 2nd coming). Rev., 1:7.


1,

• No. Jeremiah 30: 7-8 speaks of the tribulation period, not the captivity in Babylon.
• 7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.
• 8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
• The prophecy describes the most dreadful day of world history. Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar is not mentioned in that entire chapter. Read it for yourself. ('his yoke' refers to Antichrist, not Nebuchadnezzar nor the other kings of Babylon, neither does it refer to Artaxerxes because none of them fit the details of the prophecy).
• The proof that it was not Babylon nor it's kings that were in view here: Jeremiah 30 vs 11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make -- a full end of all nations -- whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee:

2

• When did the Lord destroy all those nations that scattered the Jews? When did He make a full end of them all? Syria is still here. Persia (Iran) is still here. Arabia is still here. Egypt is still here. Yet I challenge you to give the date and time and name those nations that He supposedly FULLY destroyed. This chapter speaks of a yet future time when the times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled and not in the time of the kings of Babylon or Persia.

3

• But Titus, the Roman legionaire did not declare himself to be God in the temple nor did he offer the abomination of desolation as Jesus said Antichrist would do. So Titus was not the Antichrist. That was only the beginning of the 'days of vengeance.' You are missing the point of what happened to the unbelieving Jews for 20 centuries since then. Ex: Hitler & the Nazi's were just a part of those 'days'. There is more to come.

4.

• Also, Antiochus Epiphanes could NOT have been the Antichrist because he lived and did what he did in offering a sow on the altar of the temple in 265 B.C. ...........long before Jesus prophesied that Antichrist would do this. So you are forced by the logic of scripture and history to admit that the event prophesied is yet future. Antiochus was a type of Antichrist; that's all.

5.

• The scriptures are right, but You are not telling the truth. The fact is that Jesus did NOT come back to earth visibly as the angels said he would and you cannot offer any historical evidence that He did so. He ascended from the Mt. of Olives VISIBLY and He will return VISIBLY to the Mt. of Olives just as Zechariah 14:4 tells us that He will. That HAS NOT happened yet in human history and you are in serious e

6.

You mean as Paul teaches us?

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17
• Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

7

• I already answered this above. Titus was not the Antichrist and never claimed to be God. Antichrist will claim to be God in the coming newly built temple. I have two photos in my files showing some of the stones that were thrown down by Titus's legions. Since the Jews did not repent and make Jesus their Messiah the Lord took everything away from them and suffering and persecution became their lot for many centuries. BUT when Jesus comes again(visibly, physically) the Jews will accept Him as their Messiah and the entire nation will not only be saved but the Jews will rejoice with all the Christian survivors of the great tribulation.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

This did NOT happen in A.D. 66-70 or any other time in history. The curse of the 'days of Vengeance' continued for the Jews to this day and will continue because they would not accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah.



That is when the desolation began. It isn't over yet.



Some of this may have happened in A.D. 70 but it will happen again in the future.

You are missing extremely important details that should make a difference for any honest person and I have mentioned several of those details in my replies to you. You are responsible before God for the errors you have given and I urge you strongly to reconsider what you have believed because those errors are very serious.



Why continue to haggle with someone who is unyielding and dishonest in his treatment of God's Word? Besides that, I need to absent myself from spending too much time on the board. There are other things that are more needful.

I will try to answer this but it is so mixed up I may miss something as it is nearly bed time.

1, Read the whole prophecy, not just a few verses, it is about the Babylonians and the king of Babylon.

2. Babylon and Assyria who scattered the Jews were overthrown, the Persians brought them back,

3, you are extremely mixed up here. Titus was the prince who was to come, but Daniel 9 doesn't say anything about n the prince who waqs to come declaring himself to be God. You are mixing up unrelated prophecies.

4. Of course A E could not be the antichrist,

5. I have never said that, stop putting words into my mouth

6. Yes the Lord will descend and we will meet him, is that too difficult. He is not coming to the air, He is descending.

7. I already answered that above,

It is not I that is dishonest with Gods word. It is you that are teaching new doctrines in these last days and we know what Paul says about that,

 

[Calypsis4]

I will try to answer this but it is so mixed up I may miss something as it is nearly bed time.

I said we were done and I meant it. You were not telling the truth & I will not communicate with you on this again.

 

[robycop3]

No, the great trib has NOT yet occurred. If it has, then, how come such events of that trib such as the death of all life in the seas & the burning-up of all green grass are absent from history?

But this is about the rapture. I believe it'll occur when the "man of sin" comes to power, but before he institutes the "mark of the beast". While the tech for that mark exists now, there are too many Christians, as well as non-Christians who still believe such a mark is evil, for such a mark to catch on with the general public. The rapture will remove most opposition to that mark, which will be touted as something else entirely, and thus there'll be little opposition to its being mandated.

The man of sin will be the greatest demagogue of all time, and people will accept whatever his explanation will be for the disappearance of millions of people worldwide. Only a very few will realize the rapture has occurred. These will become the "tribulation saints."

And the trib will begin very shortly after the "mark" is implemented.

 

[kyredneck]

how come such events of that trib such as the death of all life in the seas & the burning-up of all green grass are absent from history?

Lol, and I suppose you are expecting a literal great red dragon w/seven literal heads and ten literal horns with a literal great whore decked out in the high priest garb with a literal cup of abominations in her hand and literally riding the great dragon's back chasing after a woman clothed literally with the sun, moon, and stars; and that this literal great red dragon literally draws a third of literal stars from the heaven and throws them to the literal earth....etc., etc., etc.....

lol...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Lol, and I suppose you are expecting a literal great red dragon w/seven literal heads and ten literal horns with a literal great whore decked out in the high priest garb with a literal cup of abominations in her hand and literally riding the great dragon's back chasing after a woman clothed literally with the sun, moon, and stars; and that this literal great red dragon literally draws a third of literal stars from the heaven and throws them to the literal earth....etc., etc., etc..... .

Your irony is fully justified, but you do not answer the question posed in the O.P.
When may we expect the rapture spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:16? Perhaps it was in AD 70 when as well as the Return of Christ that nobody saw, there was a rapture of all the Christians and nobody saw that either. Perhaps the Philippians (Philippians 3:20-21) were eagerly waiting for the deaths of tens of thousands of Jews to transform their lowly bodies rather than for the visible Return of Christ at the end of time. lol.

 

[kyredneck]

you do not answer the question posed in the O.P.

??

Post #11:

The Rapture when is it?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

??

Post #11:

The Rapture when is it?

Thank you. That is an answer, but not to the question I asked.

 

[kyredneck]

That is an answer, but not to the question I asked.

Right, I answered your accusation.

 

[Calypsis4]

??

Post #11:

The Rapture when is it?

I answered you on my post #75 as it concerns 'this generation'.

 

[kyredneck]

I answered you on my post #75 as it concerns 'this generation'.

No. That's just your imagination:

The trifold declaration of scripture is “this generation” is that of the 1st century, contemporary with Christ and the apostles:

 

[Calypsis4]

No. That's just your imagination:

The trifold declaration of scripture is “this generation” is that of the 1st century, contemporary with Christ and the apostles:

Wow, talk about a dodge. Did you even bother trying to find out which president was 'this president' according to the AOL Huffpost headline I noted?

Nonetheless, don't bother. I don't expect an honest answer from you any more than your comrades.

 

[kyredneck]

Wow, talk about a dodge. Did you even bother trying to find out which president was 'this president' according to the AOL Huffpost headline I noted?

Nonetheless, don't bother. I don't expect an honest answer from you any more than your comrades.

Wow! Talk about "newspaper theology"! I'll stick with inspired scripture interpreting inspired scripture, not your vain reasoning and opinions.

"shall in no wise taste of death, till" = "This generation shall not pass away, till"

 

[Calypsis4]

You don't even understand what I laid before you, fella. Of course, you are expected as a believer to stick with the scriptures but by your unyielding attitude you won't even admit that the authors of holy writ used all of the common expressions of grammatical license in bringing forth the eternal truth of the Bible. That includes the timing of 'this generation.' You are dead wrong and both scripture and history proves it

You still can't tell me which president was 'this president' that caused the worst job loss in modern history. It was Ronald Reagan. But you wouldn't know that because you are not only ignorant of this principle but because of your tunnel vision theology you didn't even bother to try and find out.

But I answered that one also. John did not die until he saw the vision of Christ's coming in Revelation. A.D. 96.
The same with Luke and perhaps others we do not know about. Luke 21.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. According to John "every eye shall see' His return.

Jesus second coming was prophesied to be and will be a visible, physical, literal return to earth and every eye shall see.This did not happen in ancient times nor any other time in human history. That is because it is yet future.

Checkmate.

 

[kyredneck]

You don't even understand what I laid before you, fella.

I’m not interested in your vain reasoning, fella.

Of course, you are expected as a believer to stick with the scriptures

Yes, you should try it.

but by your unyielding attitude you won't even admit that the authors of holy writ used all of the common expressions of grammatical license in bringing forth the eternal truth of the Bible.

There’s ONE Author of holy writ, and there’s an amazing underlying continuity in holy writ that firmly establishes that fact.

That includes the timing of 'this generation.' You are dead wrong and both scripture and history proves it

The amazing underlying continuity within holy writ concerning “this generation”:

Jesus on the Rapture of the Chruch

 

[kyredneck]

You still can't tell me which president was 'this president' that caused the worst job loss in modern history. It was Ronald Reagan. But you wouldn't know that because you are not only ignorant of this principle but because of your tunnel vision theology you didn't even bother to try and find out.

I’m not interested in your vain reasoning, fella.

But I answered that one also. John did not die until he saw the vision of Christ's coming in Revelation. A.D. 96.

The same with Luke and perhaps others we do not know about. Luke 21.

Late date theory is a house of cards. The book was written sometime early-mid 60s A.D..

When was the Book of Revelation Written? - Blueprints For Living | Creation vs Evolution Blog

Dating the Book of Revelation

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven

Josephus:

"Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year."

 

[kyredneck]

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I’ll defer to Gill:

“And then shall the tribes of the earth, or land, mourn; that is, the land of Judea; for other lands, and countries, were not usually divided into tribes, as that was; neither were they affected with the calamities and desolations of it, and the vengeance of the son of man upon it; at least not so as to mourn on that account, but rather were glad and rejoiced”

According to John "every eye shall see' His return.

Yes, “even they that pierced Him”.

“Lo here! Lo there! – NOT!

Jesus second coming was prophesied to be and will be a visible, physical, literal return to earth and every eye shall see.

I’ll defer to Gill:

“…when he says they should "see" him, his meaning is not, that they should see him at the right hand of God with their bodily eyes, as Stephen did; but that they should, or at least might, see and know by the effects, that he was set down at the right hand of God; as by the pouring forth of the holy Spirit upon his disciples, on the day of pentecost; by the wonderful spread of his Gospel, and the success of it, notwithstanding all the opposition made by them, and others; and particularly, by the vengeance he should take on their nation, city, and temple…”

This did not happen in ancient times nor any other time in human history. That is because it is yet future.

Again, I’ll stick with inspired scripture and inspired scripture plainly states that the coming of Mt 24 applied to that generation of Christ’s and the apostle’s day. The coming of Mt 24 is documented by the eyewitness historian, Josephus.

Checkmate.

Again, only in your imagination.

"shall in no wise taste of death, till" = "This generation shall not pass away, till"

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[David Kent]

They have to push This generation in to the future, like The 70th week, as their teaching falls to the ground without such. This generation means the Generation Jesus was speaking to/ about in all instances. How many years in a generation? about 40 or a bit less, I should say.

• Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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