Folks, if the actions of J. Frank Norris are still discussed, why not Jack Hyles?
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The REAL Jack Hyles
- Thread starter Charles Meadows
- Start date
4His_glory
New Member
Good point Squire.
I think that people avoid discussing the sins of Jack Hyles because there are somany people who still follow him. Even his son-in-law refers to Dr Hyles in most of his newspaper ads. He says things like "We will always promote the teachings of Dr Jack Hyles."
I'm sorry. This man has ruined the spiritual life of more young men who I know than any other man. As a matter of fact, the whole movement around him smack of cultism. There is no questioning the leadership, there is the promotion of long hours of school, work and "soul winning" to the point where young men and ladies are so psychologically weary that they cannot think critically or carry on a real spiritual life. I have interacted with many young Hyles men and invariable they "read their bibles" religiously, but when you begin a conversation abut some biblical topic, they will refer to what "Brother Hyles" used to say, or some sermon "Brother Hyles" preached. I could go on, but I have a life to love.
I'm sorry. This man has ruined the spiritual life of more young men who I know than any other man. As a matter of fact, the whole movement around him smack of cultism. There is no questioning the leadership, there is the promotion of long hours of school, work and "soul winning" to the point where young men and ladies are so psychologically weary that they cannot think critically or carry on a real spiritual life. I have interacted with many young Hyles men and invariable they "read their bibles" religiously, but when you begin a conversation abut some biblical topic, they will refer to what "Brother Hyles" used to say, or some sermon "Brother Hyles" preached. I could go on, but I have a life to love.
About a fifteen year gap between the beginning of one man's ministry and the end of the other's. Overall a good fifty year distance. I am reckoning J. Frank Norris's ministry as ending in the late forties early fifties and Jack Hyles in the late ninties. The point is men like J. Frank Norris or "Fighting" Bob Sculler (the Methodist) are still discussed to this day. Why should Jack Hyles and his legacy be any different?
Excellent word picture, David. Some find a little good in him (great story teller, great motivator). I take the little good they see and view it as additional negatives - great story teller? No, liar. Great motivator? No, lay a load of guilt and intimidation is NOT motivating.
And all the rest is already "negative". So we teach using him like we use Judas - as an example of what NOT to do, say, become. And pray that we can influence blinded eyes to see the unbiblical teaching and actions and walk away before they go down the same slippery slope.
You may be thinking of the wrong Robert Schuler. The one I mentioned was a comtemporary of J. Frank Norris. In Los Angeles, he was the counterweight to Aimee Semple MacPherson.
No, that's him: Fightin' Bob Shuler--father to Bob Jr., Jack, and Phil. He fought corruption in politics and liberalism in his Methodist denomination, but he wasn't a come-outer. I've heard him criticized as not having a theological bone in his body, but I haven't heard his ethics questioned.
Just wanted to make sure. With the man occupying the platform at the Crystal Cathedral, I wanted to make sure. I can sympathize with a man in his circumstances. There are many reasons why men in the Methodist and Presbyterian denominations did not come out of them. Where would they go?
And who would own the buildings? IIRC, Machen got kicked out of the Presbyterians for heresy. The charge he was seeking to spilt Israel. (Mind you, this was in the mid-30s; long before the State of Israel was anything but a glimmer in David Ben Gurion's eye.)
My point was his name still resonates down through these many years after his death. Can it not be reasonably thought that a man of Jack Hyles' stature would resonate?
Actually, my only contact with Bob Shuler is through his son, Phil. And that's not a bad follow-on to a ministry.
And who would own the buildings? IIRC, Machen got kicked out of the Presbyterians for heresy. The charge he was seeking to spilt Israel. (Mind you, this was in the mid-30s; long before the State of Israel was anything but a glimmer in David Ben Gurion's eye.)
My point was his name still resonates down through these many years after his death. Can it not be reasonably thought that a man of Jack Hyles' stature would resonate?
Actually, my only contact with Bob Shuler is through his son, Phil. And that's not a bad follow-on to a ministry.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
The worse church I had ever been in, in all my 20 years was a Jack Hyles based IFB church. Only 8 months thank God !
A cult if I ever saw one. To know what I believe about Jack Hyles, feel free to read my earlier post on this legalistic spiritual abuser.
A cult if I ever saw one. To know what I believe about Jack Hyles, feel free to read my earlier post on this legalistic spiritual abuser.
Matthew 16:24
New Member
I was a member of one Church that the Pastor attended Hyles Anderson, the Pastor was a dictator!
ccrobinson
Active Member
I mentioned earlier in this thread that we had a team from HAC in a few weeks ago. During that service, my pastor said that he liked what was coming out of First Baptist these days, which made me shudder.
But, he has gone out of his way, and did so last night, to preach against "... 1-2-3 pray after me salvation." In the past, he has also asked the question, "There have been thousands of professed conversions in fundamentalism over the years. Where are they today?" Good question to those who haven't been preaching repentance as they ought.
So, I find myself not quite sure what to make of the first statement about liking what's coming out of First Baptist, but I'm whole-heartedly on-board with preaching against 1-2-3 pray after me salvation. Perhaps the SIL isn't falling quite as close to the tree as has been previously thought? I have my doubts, but I hope that this is the case.
But, he has gone out of his way, and did so last night, to preach against "... 1-2-3 pray after me salvation." In the past, he has also asked the question, "There have been thousands of professed conversions in fundamentalism over the years. Where are they today?" Good question to those who haven't been preaching repentance as they ought.
So, I find myself not quite sure what to make of the first statement about liking what's coming out of First Baptist, but I'm whole-heartedly on-board with preaching against 1-2-3 pray after me salvation. Perhaps the SIL isn't falling quite as close to the tree as has been previously thought? I have my doubts, but I hope that this is the case.
ccrobinson,
Im not arguing against what you just wrote, but how would you lead someone to faith in Christ? Do you believe it can be done on the street in a few minutes if the person's heart has been prepared beforehand by the Holy Spirit?
Also, I do not hold to simply saying here, pray this prayer. I know alot have gotten that impression from Hyles, although personally Ive heard him many many times say that that is not the appropriate way to soul win either. It takes true faith in Christ. But thats really beside the point. Im honestly asking you what you would say when witnessing to someone?
Im not arguing against what you just wrote, but how would you lead someone to faith in Christ? Do you believe it can be done on the street in a few minutes if the person's heart has been prepared beforehand by the Holy Spirit?
Also, I do not hold to simply saying here, pray this prayer. I know alot have gotten that impression from Hyles, although personally Ive heard him many many times say that that is not the appropriate way to soul win either. It takes true faith in Christ. But thats really beside the point. Im honestly asking you what you would say when witnessing to someone?
David Ekstrom
New Member
At HAC, we ran through the Romans Road in lightning speed. The most shallow prayers were counted as "conversions," and then the numbers were padded on top of that. The same at FBC. If Hyles himself didn't believe in that, he was out of touch with what was going on. In fact, I'm convinced he didn't care. He cared about numbers and appearances--period. The thing was systemtic. It so permeated the ministry that Hyles could not have not known.
David Ekstrom
New Member
Another take on the REAL Jack Hyles is the disconnect between the rhetoric and the reality. Hyles would come up with sayings that were the opposite of reality. For example, here are three sayings that he constantly said that were the opposite of the reality.
"I will not use my people to build my church; I will use my church to build my people."
"We have more Bible in the hors d'oveurs around here than other churches have in the main course."
"On the essentials, unity; on the non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."
Those things must have been true at FBC and HAC because Preacher said they were.
"I will not use my people to build my church; I will use my church to build my people."
"We have more Bible in the hors d'oveurs around here than other churches have in the main course."
"On the essentials, unity; on the non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."
Those things must have been true at FBC and HAC because Preacher said they were.
David Ekstrom
New Member
Sure, bapmom, I agree with you that one can lead someone to Christ on the spot, if the Lord has prepared them. There are a few folks serving the Lord now after many years that I had the privilege of leading to Christ in that fashion.
My only problem with soul-winning is that I don't do enough of it. God forgive me! I finally got out last weekend and banged on some doors. Had one real good prospect that I need to follow up on. My church really needs to grow and I need to step out in faith and witness. I realize that cold-calling is not very productive, but it beats what I'm not doing now.
No, I don't have any problem whatsoever with sharing the Roman's Road or the Four Spiritual Laws or whatever method and calling for a decision on the spot. If you're heart's right, you're not doing it to boast. If you're really thinking about the people you're trying to witness to, you won't be manipulative. You can't manipulate conversion. If we really care about the people we're witnessing to, we'd rather have them come out and hear themselves openly reject Christ than innoculate them with a false profession.
My only problem with soul-winning is that I don't do enough of it. God forgive me! I finally got out last weekend and banged on some doors. Had one real good prospect that I need to follow up on. My church really needs to grow and I need to step out in faith and witness. I realize that cold-calling is not very productive, but it beats what I'm not doing now.
No, I don't have any problem whatsoever with sharing the Roman's Road or the Four Spiritual Laws or whatever method and calling for a decision on the spot. If you're heart's right, you're not doing it to boast. If you're really thinking about the people you're trying to witness to, you won't be manipulative. You can't manipulate conversion. If we really care about the people we're witnessing to, we'd rather have them come out and hear themselves openly reject Christ than innoculate them with a false profession.