The REAL Jack Hyles

[bapmom]

I couldn't agree with you more! Thank you for your answer, I really wasn't sure if those who were criticizing Hyles were saying that a person can't possibly really be saved "on the spot" as you put it.

Im glad that isnt so. I go out soul winning, too, and see people saved, though I haven't had many converts come with me to church yet. I have done my best to never ever claim that the prayer will save them, and to point out that God hates sin, and how bad it is. Ive never pushed just for a name on a paper, at least that I know of. I have seen young soul winners do these sorts of things, but we are trying to train that out of them. I do keep their names, though, and pray for them. I need to get better at going back and inviting them again to come with me to church.
That is where I believe I need to grow the most right now.

 

[David Ekstrom]

Bapmom, I didn't mean to avoid your question. Our posts crossed in the air as it were.
I'm angry with Hyles but I do have to remember that a lot of good people don't see it my way. I've got to remember that most of the folks following Hyles do so because they love the Lord and they believe that he was legit.

 

[bapmom]

Thank you David, I do see now that you were not avoiding me and I appreciate that.

I believe that my own preacher is one of those latter that you just described. He loved Hyles, as they were friends, but I would not describe our church as Hyles-based. We don't even really talk about him all that much. And we do things according to what the BIble says.

 

[RightFromWrong]

At HAC, we ran through the Romans Road in lightning speed. The most shallow prayers were counted as "conversions," and then the numbers were padded on top of that. The same at FBC. If Hyles himself didn't believe in that, he was out of touch with what was going on. In fact, I'm convinced he didn't care. He cared about numbers and appearances--period. The thing was systemtic. It so permeated the ministry that Hyles could not have not known.

David Ekstrom that is the same experiences we had in the Jack Hyles based church we attended

 

[AVL1984]

CCRobinson, if Pastor Thibo is liking what he sees coming out of HAC, you need to keep a serious watch on him. Granted, he did come out of Maranatha Baptist Bible College, but I have to say that I would question his theology. I grew up at Faith Baptist in Pekin, and we had many go to HAC who's lives are now a mess. Then my I went to Fellowship Baptist College over at Averyville Baptist Church in the 80's and my wife and I went there again in the 90's. I think Brother Coyle likes the things from HAC also. I hate to see it. I believe David Lynn, pastor of First Baptist in Creve Coeur was a HAC grad, and he seems to be on a pretty even keel. Not all that came out of HAC or were associated with or love it are bad, but, a great majority are.

God bless you my friend.

P.S.- Did you know the Coffrin's...Phil and Sandy? Phil recently passed away from a massive stroke.

 

[ccrobinson]

bapmom, that's a good question. If the Spirit has been working on the sinner's heart, then yes, I have no doubt that somebody can be saved on the spot. I would think that this scenario is a case where somebody planted the seed, somebody else watered and God brought the increase. In my own witnessing, I try to get them lost, so to speak, before they can get saved. I hope that answers your question and makes some sense, too.

AVL, I was quite troubled by the statement that he liked what was coming out of HAC. I've been going to Bayview since 99 and I've never heard him say that before. The last time we had a team from First Baptist was 2000 and I had never even heard of First Baptist before that. I wasn't impressed. The preacher that day bragged that they had more converts on the road than any other college team that summer. Yeah, they bragged about how awesome they were.

This is only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but I don't think Pastor Thibo been totally on-board with everything that has happened at First Baptist over the years. I think it says a lot that he's never said those words before.

Pastor preaches the truth and though I disagree with some of his views, like music, for instance, his theology is rock solid. He's been preaching against "1-2-3 pray after me" salvation and preaching that repentance has to be a part of soul-winning for as long as I've been there. I guarantee that if I hear anything approaching heresy, we'll be out of there. I've been down that road at my last church, and it's not an experience I want to relive.

Chris

Yes, I know the Coffrins. Sandy still comes to Bayview.

 

[AVL1984]

Personally, Chris, I don't see how Brother Thibo COULD BE on board with all of the things that go on at FBCH/HAC...the i,2,3 pray after me mentality was something I had always thought he was against. He may have just been trying to be a good host.

The Coffrin's were best friends to my mother and father when I was growing up.

 

[Paul33]

I have found that if the person "getting saved" isn't already connected to the church in some way (Bible Study, small group, attending worship), very seldom will that newly "saved" individual begin to attend church.

Now we need to witness wherever we are, but discipleship (and true conversion) seems to need to take place in an already established relationship to the church. Without this, the saved don't seem to want to go to church.

 

[ccrobinson]

AVL, I'm going to go with being a good host, because preaching against "1-2-3 pray after me..." (a direct quote btw) goes against what I've always known about First Baptist. Or, maybe things are slowly starting to change at First Baptist and Schaap is starting to preach more about repentance than Hyles did.

Phil and Sandy have been, and Sandy continues to be, a great blessing to my family.

 

[AVL1984]

If you see her, tell her Tony (Lou's son) said howdy!

Glad to know that Thibo hasn't strayed. Now I wonder about Averyville and Coyle...if he's still pastor there.

 

[bapmom]

thank you ccrobinson.

You know how extreme Baptists tend to be? I think the repentance issue has caused an extreme reaction in some. I know there are a few who went to one extreme and started saying that one must clean their life up in order to BE saved OR in order to PROVE that they were saved....know what I mean? So I really truly think that some started avoiding the word "repent" because they did not want to be thought to be saying anything like "you have to STOP sinning FIRST in order to be saved."

Does this make sense? BTW, Im not trying to start an issue here.

 

[AVL1984]

bapmom, I know of a few preachers who believe that once you get saved, you'll automatically become a totally new person overnight...immediate spiritual maturity expected. What a radical and ridiculous concept on their part. Most of the doing away with the preaching of repenting came on the part of the HAC crowd and others like them. The 1,2,3 pray after me mentality has left more people unsure of their salvation and the need for repentence than any other "doctrine" (false doctrine, I might add).

 

[bapmom]

So do you think their radical view was actually a reaction to the "doing away with the preaching of repentance"?

 

[AVL1984]

I think it's possible in part, but not probable. Many of these Bible college Jack Hyles wannabe's all think that repentence isn't necessary. I've heard at least three say from the pulpit that it wasn't, but that God would change the people immediately...what a pity that this isn't true. I believe I remember John the Baptist preaching "Repent"...Jesus preaching "Repent", Peter preaching "Repent" and Paul preaching "Repent". Hmmm...Do these preachers have a new revelation? I certainly don't think so. I believe they are adding their own little twists to the doctrines to fit their own wants and needs to the detriment of the lost.

 

[bapmom]

So how would you define repentance, if you had to try to boil it down?

I guess I would say saving repentance would be a conviction of the awfulness of one's sin, and the knowledge that that sin needed a penalty. Then the acknowledgement that that sin was paid for, and salvation is only through Jesus. Im being simplistic, I know, but did I leave anything out?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

I think it comes more from the wittnesser's perspective. I've always operated under the rough principle of "You can't get them saved, until you get them lost." Yes, Dr. Bob et al. the theology of that statement is not all that accurate or elegent. But, it works as a rule of thumb.

 

[bapmom]

Squire,

I understand what you mean, and Ive often thought of it that way, too.

 

[Bartimaeus]

bapmom,
I pastored in ST. John In. (8 miles south of Hammond) I saw the good, bad and the ugly. Not all was wrong in Hammond and certainly not all was right either. I've got good stories that I personnally witnessed and bad that came from the "horse's mouth". I must also say that I grew up going to another large church in another location and there are skeleton's in all the closets. I was in the area over eight years. I pastored a small church with no "known" name, trying to do what the Lord sent me there to do. I had another pastor in the area be so bold to say, "if it weren't for me and Hyles you little guys wouldn't have churches". He ran away to Florida when the cops started looking for him for statuatory rape. I knew the Lord would vindicate I just didn't know when, I prayed that He would help me keep my temper and my stomach. Bro Hyles or his folk at the church never bothered us, quite a few times his folk were rich blessings from God. Thanks ------Bart

My nanny used to say if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.

 

[AVL1984]

Bartimaeus...if you'd had to have lived with some of the tyranny of the Hyles cult as many of us did, you wouldn't be so kind...regardless of what your "nanny" said.

 

[bapmom]

AVL,

I think you were the one who said you are still angry with Hyles? Im not disputing your right to have these feelings, or even the legitimacy of your complaint. I suppose we have all been done wrong by people in authority, even in churches.

Let me ask, though....do you think that perhaps you have been angry for too long? If it hasn't already, this will turn into bitterness. And bitterness is very very difficult to get away from. Anger and bitterness in the Christian's heart very often comes from a quite legitimate wrongdoing on someone else's part. So Im not saying that you do not have cause. Im saying that if you haven't yet, it would behoove you to forgive and then forget.

Please understand, I haven't read all your posts in all the threads, so Im only going by our short conversation in here. But by your posts you seem to still harbor anger, and you did even say that, correct? Im only trying to help, though.