The result of loving Jesus and keeping His commandments

[Samuels]

Sorry, I missed the first thread on this topic (before it was locked),
and I don't know if anyone presented these verses ...

John 14:21-23 (NKJV)
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

It appears there are conditions for receiving and keeping the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dave G]

It appears there are conditions for receiving and keeping the Holy Spirit.

It appears so.

Who loves God if none seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 )?
How does one love God if they hate Him ( Romans 1:30 )?
How does one come to Christ if they love darkness and hate the light ( John 3:19-20 )?

 

[HankD]

Sorry, I missed the first thread on this topic (before it was locked),
and I don't know if anyone presented these verses ...

John 14:21-23 (NKJV)
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father,
and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.
... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

It appears there are conditions for receiving and keeping the Holy Spirit.

Sam are you affiliated with the Hebrew Roots movement or a similar organization.

When you think about "Keeping His Commandments", do you think TORAH?

 

[Samuels]

Sam are you affiliated with the Hebrew Roots movement or a similar organization.

When you think about "Keeping His Commandments", do you think TORAH?

No, my last name is Samuels (but I'm not Jewish).

No, don't even know of such a group!

No, never think about TORAH.

No, Jesus was talking about His commandments.

Gee, I feel all no'd out.

 

[HankD]

No, my last name is Samuels (but I'm not Jewish).

No, don't even know of such a group!

No, never think about TORAH.

No, Jesus was talking about His commandments.

Gee, I feel all no'd out.

Thanks

 

[utilyan]

It appears so.

Who loves God if none seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 )?
How does one love God if they hate Him ( Romans 1:30 )?
How does one come to Christ if they love darkness and hate the light ( John 3:19-20 )?

Romans 3 10

Paul is not pope nor receive any direct contact from GOD to establish any new doctrine.
Paul tells you he is quoting old testament not establishing new doctrine. If Paul was establishing new doctrine the entire church would have to go through the whole mess of acts 15 again.


No one in the Jewish faith establishes Total Depravity. The context of the scripture cited are charges against "THE FOOL".

Psalm 14

1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds;
There is no one who does good.

2The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.

3They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

4Do all the workers of wickedness not know,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call upon the Lord?

5There they are in great dread,
For God is with the righteous generation.

6You would put to shame the counsel of the afflicted,
But the LORD is his refuge.

7Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the LORD restores His captive people,
Jacob will rejoice, Israel will be glad.

All Paul is doing is bringing into remembrance the times Jews have also failed and they are no better than gentiles.

 

[utilyan]

It appears so.

Who loves God if none seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 )?
How does one love God if they hate Him ( Romans 1:30 )?
How does one come to Christ if they love darkness and hate the light ( John 3:19-20 )?

John 1

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The idea that people love darkness rather than light IS THE CONDEMNATION.

The one who doesn't believe in the name JESUS = "GOD SAVES" . The one who doesn't believe GOD SAVES, he sees a person do evil and immediately concludes OH that person LOVES darkness rather than LIGHT, why because the DEEDS were EVIL.

Notice it doesn't say because the SINNER was evil, THE DEEDS were evil.

He is also a hypocrite, when he sins himself oh is the exception he still loves the light. He judges and condemns others and he pulls the trigger on his own head without knowing it.

That is very typical of how God works. The guy who walks around calling everyone an idiot turns out to be biggest dummy.

Having this mindset that people love evil more than good IS the condemnation, IT IS THE INSTANT PUNISHMENT. Its the trap he sets himself.

The scripture tells you that is the punishment, the judgement and condemnation.
'


A person who BELIEVES GOD SAVES, Is not under the condemnation. We believe you love the light regardless of the deeds you do.

When I see you sin, I don't judge and condemn you , I don't say oh look this guy loves DARKNESS more than Light. That is not true that is false accusation. And it stems from the idea that God is not the kind of person who saves others.

I have to hold faith in God, I have to believe he can save you and that you love LIGHT more than Darkness.

I have to encourage you to seek God despite all the evil deeds.

 

[MB]

It appears so.

Who loves God if none seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 )?
How does one love God if they hate Him ( Romans 1:30 )?
How does one come to Christ if they love darkness and hate the light ( John 3:19-20 )?

You know Hebrews also says;
Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Yet you come saying the oppsite that we or can loose our Salvation. You seem to make scripture in to a lie.
MB

 

[utilyan]

You know Hebrews also says;
Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Yet you come saying the oppsite that we or can loose our Salvation. You seem to make scripture in to a lie.
MB

I'm pretty sure Calvinist believe in perseverance of the saints OSAS.



Theres a level of intelligence and wisdom till you grow out a belief like Calvinism I think they have to slam on the gas to have all things reach its ridiculous conclusion..

Dave needs to toughen up and accept Jesus unconditional hatred, and get up there with westboro baptists and the other hyper-calvinist. before he can "snap" out of it.

For me to convince a Protestant to be a Calvinist.....is piece of cake

MB you might need to start your own Calvinism train ride, cause you might believe it, just don't say it.

You haven't thought things thru.

You won't hear this from them, they need to go up the ladder more......FREE WILL.

Once Save Always Saved denies FREE WILL. Once a person is saved he has no choice.

Can you have both FREE WILL and Once Saved Always Saved?

 

[HankD]

Once Save Always Saved denies FREE WILL. Once a person is saved he has no choice.

Can you have both FREE WILL and Once Saved Always Saved?

Yes you can have both.

i.e. I may want to swim across the Pacific Ocean and in fact attempt it but fail.

Now what if for some strange reason I don't want to remain saved and choose to return to my fallen estate - I will not be able to unsave myself though I want to and choose to go back because of the following reason:

John 10
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I cannot unsave myself No ONE CAN only GOD.

Its not my job to keep myself saved - That's Jesus and the Father's job and Jesus has promised it's not GOING to HAPPEN!

 

[MB]

I'm pretty sure Calvinist believe in perseverance of the saints OSAS.



Theres a level of intelligence and wisdom till you grow out a belief like Calvinism I think they have to slam on the gas to have all things reach its ridiculous conclusion..

Dave needs to toughen up and accept Jesus unconditional hatred, and get up there with westboro baptists and the other hyper-calvinist. before he can "snap" out of it.

For me to convince a Protestant to be a Calvinist.....is piece of cake

MB you might need to start your own Calvinism train ride, cause you might believe it, just don't say it.

You haven't thought things thru.

You won't hear this from them, they need to go up the ladder more......FREE WILL.

Once Save Always Saved denies FREE WILL. Once a person is saved he has no choice.

Can you have both FREE WILL and Once Saved Always Saved?

I have no doubts about what I believe and it sure isn't Calvinism. I have found nothing in Calvinism that agrees with scripture.
Once saved always saved does not deny freewill it endorses it.Not only that OSAS is not a Calvinist doctrine. When we come to Christ it is by our own descision to do so, Sure we are sinners but our sins have been forgiven long ago when Christ died for our sins. He died for them before we even existed. Think about that for a minute...............This means He dies for all sin in every age. The sins I haven't committed yet are forgiven because He died for the sins of the whole world and for all time.It has to be all time or there is no Salvation left for those who were born after Christ.

As far as freewill to leave Salvation behind. Well you go off and sin do what ever you like but we have to remember that what we sow we reap In this life. But when it comes to judgement day. You're not gonna want to go into hell. Your going to be begging for forgiveness because you turned your back on Him

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Notice there is no mention of hell but there is the wrath of God

Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

IOW"s you can leave Him but He will not leave you. God's promises are true and will come to pass even though yours may not be . Coming to Christ is like signing a contract you cannot get out of. Because when we come to Him we surrender our will to Him.or we aren't His to begin with. We as Christians are not our own we are sold to Him willingly. Before this we belonged to Satan and his owner ship can only be defeated by your surrender to Christ. Satan would love to have you but he can never own you permanently again. Although you can be his servant.

So it's not a mater of freewill to walk away because if you belong to Christ you cannot choose to just walk away.
This is why when someone does leave it all behind we know he was never saved in the first place.
You can read my commitment.
at the bottom of all my post
MB

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I have no doubts about what I believe and it sure isn't Calvinism.

Do you agree with Arminianism? If not, is there another "camp" you identify with?

 

[MB]

Do you agree with Arminianism? If not, is there another "camp" you identify with?

The only Camp is Jesus Christ and the plain teaching of the Bible. There is no man I follow, I follow Christ there is nothing better. Other men follow other men but what I follow never makes a mistake. He directs my path.
MB

 

[utilyan]

I have no doubts about what I believe and it sure isn't Calvinism. I have found nothing in Calvinism that agrees with scripture.
Once saved always saved does not deny freewill it endorses it.Not only that OSAS is not a Calvinist doctrine. When we come to Christ it is by our own descision to do so, Sure we are sinners but our sins have been forgiven long ago when Christ died for our sins. He died for them before we even existed. Think about that for a minute...............This means He dies for all sin in every age. The sins I haven't committed yet are forgiven because He died for the sins of the whole world and for all time.It has to be all time or there is no Salvation left for those who were born after Christ.

As far as freewill to leave Salvation behind. Well you go off and sin do what ever you like but we have to remember that what we sow we reap In this life. But when it comes to judgement day. You're not gonna want to go into hell. Your going to be begging for forgiveness because you turned your back on Him

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Notice there is no mention of hell but there is the wrath of God

Heb_13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

IOW"s you can leave Him but He will not leave you. God's promises are true and will come to pass even though yours may not be . Coming to Christ is like signing a contract you cannot get out of. Because when we come to Him we surrender our will to Him.or we aren't His to begin with. We as Christians are not our own we are sold to Him willingly. Before this we belonged to Satan and his owner ship can only be defeated by your surrender to Christ. Satan would love to have you but he can never own you permanently again. Although you can be his servant.

So it's not a mater of freewill to walk away because if you belong to Christ you cannot choose to just walk away.
This is why when someone does leave it all behind we know he was never saved in the first place.
You can read my commitment.
at the bottom of all my post
MB

"if you belong to Christ you cannot choose to just walk away."

OK so you have no free will. If you can't choose to leave you have no free will period.

Ok so you are saying God decides who he wants to stay around and not leave you.
Does God decide who he stays around to save?

You saved yourself by works, no right? faith alone. God given gift.

Does God give this gift to everyone? Does God never forsake anyone?

 

[utilyan]

Yes you can have both.

i.e. I may want to swim across the Pacific Ocean and in fact attempt it but fail.

Now what if for some strange reason I don't want to remain saved and choose to return to my fallen estate - I will not be able to unsave myself though I want to and choose to go back because of the following reason:

John 10
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I cannot unsave myself No ONE CAN only GOD.

Its not my job to keep myself saved - That's Jesus and the Father's job and Jesus has promised it's not GOING to HAPPEN!

Amen, when you decide to walk off his hand no one is plucking them out.

 

[HankD]

"if you belong to Christ you cannot choose to just walk away."

OK so you have no free will. If you can't choose to leave you have no free will period.

You have free will, you just can't exercise it

 

[MB]

"if you belong to Christ you cannot choose to just walk away."


OK so you have no free will. If you can't choose to leave you have no free will period.

No you can walk away and go back to sinning. It's that Christ will never leave nor forsake. He will come looking for His lost sheep to bring them back into the flock. If Christ does not come looking for you then you were never His to begin with. We do not persevere like the Calvinist we are kept by God.

Ok so you are saying God decides who he wants to stay around and not leave you.

Does God decide who he stays around to save?

Jesus saves when man has genuine faith.

You saved yourself by works, no right? faith alone. God given gift.

Does God give this gift to everyone? Does God never forsake anyone?

Salvation is not by works. Faith is not a work;
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith cannot be a work in the verse above. Calvinist claim it's a work but they contradict the Bible every time they do. Faith is believing. and faith is from hearing the gospel
MB

 

[MB]

You have free will, you just can't exercise it

Jonah walk away and He suffered the consequences. Why do you suppose this is true?. Is it because if you belong to God you are not your own.
MB.

 

[HankD]

Jonah walk away and He suffered the consequences. Why do you suppose this is true?. Is it because if you belong to God you are not your own.
MB.

It was humor.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

You have free will, you just can't exercise it

Intended as humor, got it. While one might clam they have free will, they don't. Self will, yes.

Jonah walk away and He suffered the consequences. Why do you suppose this is true?. Is it because if you belong to God you are not your own.

The example Christ set was that He yielded His will to His Father. Good example for us to follow.