The role of the wife.

[Cutter]

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Are these verses still applicable to today's generation or were they only meant for the period in which they were penned?

 

[exscentric]

Of course.

Might I add, the word "submit" comes from a combination of two words, "sub" meaning under and "mit" or fist. :laugh: Well, maybe that isn't quite the meaning of the word! :thumbs:

 

[annsni]

Why would we think it was only for that time? We are told to submit to our husbands as the church submits to Christ. Is that outdated?

 

[donnA]

Of course they are for today. Several times in scripture the marriage relationship is compared to the relationship of Christ and the church, marriage is to be a picture of that relationship. The wife submitting to her husband is a picture of the church submitting to Christ. A faulty marital relationship in this respect gives a faulty view of the relationship of Christ as head of the church.

 

[preachinjesus]

Thee thoughts and I'll duck and cover...

a. Submission is probably best understood as respect. Wives are to respect their husbands and vice versa, it isn't a one way street.

2. There is more in the Scriptures about the role of the husband in comending, protecting, honoring, and nurturing his wife than about wives respecting husbands.

iii. This, like all things said in the New Covenant, are applicable for today. Scripture is not invalid.

 

[donnA]

a. Submission is probably best understood as respect. Wives are to respect their husbands and vice versa, it isn't a one way street.

Husbands are told to love their wives, wives are told to respect their husbands. I would be interested in any other verses like this about respect you know of.
Submission is one equal placing themselves under the authority of another equal. Respect plays a part in that a woman who does not respect her husband(for whatever reason, which is not part of the op's question) is probably is not going to submit to him.
I read a book once that says, according to the men polled, that they would prefer to be respected then loved if they had to chose, most men translate respect as love. No respect means no love to the men polled. I forogt the number of men polled, but it was several thousand, and from all walks for life, and ages.
eph 5:
33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

 

[annsni]

Husbands are told to love their wives, wives are told to respect their husbands. I would be interested in any other verses like this about respect you know of.
Submission is one equal placing themselves under the authority of another equal. Respect plays a part in that a woman who does not respect her husband(for whatever reason, which is not part of the op's question) is probably is not going to submit to him.
I read a book once that says, according to the men polled, that they would prefer to be respected then loved if they had to chose, most men translate respect as love. No respect means no love to the men polled. I forogt the number of men polled, but it was several thousand, and from all walks for life, and ages.
eph 5:
33Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

Donna - The book I think you're speaking of is "For Women Only" and when polled about wanting love or respect, men were confused because they see both as the same thing. It was an interesting read. Let me get the book....

OK - from the book:

Think about what these two negative experiences would be like: to feel alone and unloved in the world OR to feel inadequate and disrespected by everyone. If you were forced to choose one, which would you prefer? Would you rather feel...? (choose one answer)

* alone and unloved
* inadequate and disrespected

When I originally tested the survey questions, I was perplexed that many men had a hard time answering the 'unloved versus disrespected' question - because they appeared to equate the two. Chuck Cowan, the survey-design expert, warned me that might happen. Why? I wondered. Those are two totally different things! Then one of my readers tested my survey questions on ten men who didn't know me. When I got the surveys back, only one note was attached: "A lot of the guys fussed over question 3 (the question above). They did not feel the choices were different.

Finally, the lightbulb came on: If a man feels disrespected, he is going to feel unloved.

BTW - 74% of the men chose "alone and unloved" and 26% chose "inadequate and disrespected" She surveyed over 1000 men.

 

[Timsings]

My wife and I celebrated our 35th anniversary on Monday. I have never felt that she has had to "submit" to me. We have a mutual relationship built on love and respect. I would still rather spend an evening with her than any other person I can think of.

Tim Reynolds

 

[dan e.]

It seems to me that the debate is never really about whether or not these passages still apply today. I would hope that we all believe that the things the Bible teaches is always applicable.

Rather, the point of debate seems to be the term "submit", and whether or not we can understand the meaning of the word the same way we may use it today, or not. After all, it has been a term, and passage, that has been extremely obused for manipulative purposes throughout time.

 

[Tom Bryant]

A few points about this passage
1. It is in the context of being filled with the Spirit and is preceded by the command to be mutually submissive one to another.

2. The command is aimed at the wife to submit herself to her husband, not to the husband to command the wife to be submissive; If a husband has to resort to telling his wife that "You must be submissive to me, it's in the Bible" he's already lost the war. :laugh:

3. The husband is to love his wife with the sacrifical love of Christ rather than the fist of "I'm the boss"

4. If that's true, a wife who is truly loved by her husabnd with a Christ-like love will not have issues with being submissive. I am convinced that many wives are not submissive because they are not certain that their husband loves them as the Bible commands a husband.

 

[dan e.]

4. If that's true, a wife who is truly loved by her husabnd with a Christ-like love will not have issues with being submissive. I am convinced that many wives are not submissive because they are not certain that their husband loves them as the Bible commands a husband.

Whew!!! Somebody had to say it!!

When it comes down to it....I think you may be right!

 

[abcgrad94]

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Are these verses still applicable to today's generation or were they only meant for the period in which they were penned?

Are the verses that talk about husbands loving their wife still applicable in today's generation? Why question the wife's role but not the husband's?

 

[Hopeful]

Whew!!! Somebody had to say it!!

When it comes down to it....I think you may be right!

I am one of the "strongest" women I know, based on what I am "able" to do, what I have training to do, my intelligence level, my personality, my God-given instincts and talents, etc. And I don't say that in a boasting way--it is merely a statement of facts. These strengths have been used by God over many years to work outside the home, care for both my ailing parents and my ailing, now-deceased husband. On top of all this "strength" that some might say is "unwomanly", I was 36 years old when I married my husband...so I was really "set in my ways", too, and used to living my daily life without having to "answer to" anyone else as to my whereabouts or choices.

My hubby was thankful for, appreciative of, and supportive of my strengths--all of them. He was himself a strong man--strength of character, conviction, love, and devotion. He did not have--nor need--an "iron fist" to "rule" the house. He did not need to pull out "the rulebook" and quote those Bible verses telling me what "my role as wife" was--because HE knew what "his role as husband" was FIRST AND FOREMOST. There was never a question of whether or not I would "submit", because he treated me with tenderness, love, and consideration. I, in turn, respected him and had the confidence in him that should he find it necessary to "make decisions" without my input (which he always sought), that I would know they were the decisions that God would have him to make. I literally "followed him" across three states and put my faith in God and my future in hubby's and God's hands on several occasions when he made choices that would not necessarily have been the ones I would have made on my own.

In looking back at our life together, I can see where EVERY decision he made brought us to exactly where God intended us to be all along. My "submission" to my hubby's lead was never an issue, but every time this topic is brought up here on the BB, I am reminded of something very important--it wasn't an "issue" because, however humanly imperfect it could be at times, especially after his head injury, MY HUBBY'S LEAD was EASY TO FOLLOW.....and we generally walked along side-by-side each other, sharing hopes, dreams, decisions, after prayer and consideration together. His love and consideration of ME made "my role" a very, very easy one to play, despite any other challenges we faced through the years.

Which reminds me of THESE verses:
Gal 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. They're part of the Scriptures that are ALSO still applicable today.

 

[donnA]

A few points about this passage
1. It is in the context of being filled with the Spirit and is preceded by the command to be mutually submissive one to another.

2. The command is aimed at the wife to submit herself to her husband, not to the husband to command the wife to be submissive; If a husband has to resort to telling his wife that "You must be submissive to me, it's in the Bible" he's already lost the war. :laugh:

3. The husband is to love his wife with the sacrifical love of Christ rather than the fist of "I'm the boss"

4. If that's true, a wife who is truly loved by her husabnd with a Christ-like love will not have issues with being submissive. I am convinced that many wives are not submissive because they are not certain that their husband loves them as the Bible commands a husband.

Very good post.

 

[donnA]

I am one of the "strongest" women I know, based on what I am "able" to do, what I have training to do, my intelligence level, my personality, my God-given instincts and talents, etc. And I don't say that in a boasting way--it is merely a statement of facts. These strengths have been used by God over many years to work outside the home, care for both my ailing parents and my ailing, now-deceased husband. On top of all this "strength" that some might say is "unwomanly", I was 36 years old when I married my husband...so I was really "set in my ways", too, and used to living my daily life without having to "answer to" anyone else as to my whereabouts or choices.

My hubby was thankful for, appreciative of, and supportive of my strengths--all of them. He was himself a strong man--strength of character, conviction, love, and devotion. He did not have--nor need--an "iron fist" to "rule" the house. He did not need to pull out "the rulebook" and quote those Bible verses telling me what "my role as wife" was--because HE knew what "his role as husband" was FIRST AND FOREMOST. There was never a question of whether or not I would "submit", because he treated me with tenderness, love, and consideration. I, in turn, respected him and had the confidence in him that should he find it necessary to "make decisions" without my input (which he always sought), that I would know they were the decisions that God would have him to make. I literally "followed him" across three states and put my faith in God and my future in hubby's and God's hands on several occasions when he made choices that would not necessarily have been the ones I would have made on my own.

In looking back at our life together, I can see where EVERY decision he made brought us to exactly where God intended us to be all along. My "submission" to my hubby's lead was never an issue, but every time this topic is brought up here on the BB, I am reminded of something very important--it wasn't an "issue" because, however humanly imperfect it could be at times, especially after his head injury, MY HUBBY'S LEAD was EASY TO FOLLOW.....and we generally walked along side-by-side each other, sharing hopes, dreams, decisions, after prayer and consideration together. His love and consideration of ME made "my role" a very, very easy one to play, despite any other challenges we faced through the years.

Which reminds me of THESE verses:
Gal 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. They're part of the Scriptures that are ALSO still applicable today.

I've seen on the BB in past people who believed a strong woman could not or would not submit to her husband, but rather ruled the home. Thanks for proving them wrong. Once again.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I think that "submit" is misunderstood as an authority over another. Rather, I believe it to mean "offer". If I submit a proposal, I offer it. I would not want my wife to submit in the sense most seem to mean it. We are in a co-equal relationship, have been for 35 years, and neither of us would have it any other way.

 

[donnA]

I think that "submit" is misunderstood as an authority over another. Rather, I believe it to mean "offer". If I submit a proposal, I offer it. I would not want my wife to submit in the sense most seem to mean it. We are in a co-equal relationship, have been for 35 years, and neither of us would have it any other way.

This is what I mean by one equal submiting to another equal.

 

[Tom Butler]

Tom Bryant's post #10 and Hopeful's post #13 are filled with wisdom, both spiritual and practical.

If both husband and wife are not submitted first to the Lord, the idea of submission won't work. It will produce conflict eventually when the husband demands submission.

Tom is right, if a husband has to ask his wife to submit, he's lost the battle.

Hopeful doesn't have a problem with submitting to her husband for several reasons. One, he is totally devoted to her and to her well-being. Two, he asks for her counsel in the decision-making, and I'll bet he listens to her counsel and accepts it often.

On another practical note, total equality does not work in a marriage, or in a business. In either, if the owners have equal power, you will have gridlock. One of them must have the final responsibility and the appropriate authority in order to simply get anything done. That's why, in business, there are often titles such as Managing Partner. In marriage, someone must make the final decision.

This is not a question of dominance, it's a question of responsibility. It's both practical and biblical.

In my church, for instance, each member an equal with the others, But it works best if the pastor is the chief among equals.

 

[gb93433]

Are these verses still applicable to today's generation or were they only meant for the period in which they were penned?

Both. Eph. 5:21 has no verb. It is a participial phrase which was used to connect the previous passage to the following passage in the Greek text.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

On another practical note, total equality does not work in a marriage

Sure it does. But there has to be give and take. Sometimes one person chooses, another time the other. It works great. I can't argue with success.