SaggyWoman
Active Member
This is okay for all the married women, but what about single women??
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The role of the wife.
- Thread starter Cutter
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annsni said:
In truth, I believe all scripture maintains it's relevancy, regardless of how people and times change. With some of the off the wall views of BB members I wanted to see if anybody was man or woman enough to stand up and speak against these verses. Maybe I threw a soft pitch.
I told my wife I liked independent women and she submitted and is independent.
ShotGunWillie
New Member
That is not what it means....
That's not a good way to do theology of any sort. The word we must define is not "submit." It is hupotasso. It has nothing to do with proposals.
Mark Dever at Capitol Hill Baptist Church recently preached an excellent message on this topic. It was a series of four messages on gender roles. It would be well worth listening to for anyone who is serious about this topic. You can download it at chbcaudio.org.
Brother Bob
New Member
Been married 47 years and if the "love" is there both ways, no problem with the rest. My wife knows I would give my life for her and I know she would give hers for me. We either one would die in the place of the other if that were possible, so submitting has never been even brought up in our household. If you have to bring it up, you have lost the argument to start with. We both were raised where the man is the head of the household, but does that mean that I have to approve everything, absolutely not. Even my dog runs to me, when she thinks there is a crisis and so does my wife and children. They all look to me to lean on, and I love them for it.Pastor Larry said:
BBob,
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This was stated earlier, and quite honestly, is a bad argument. You may have to bring it up because someone is untaught, or is rebelling against Scripture. Even God himself brought it calling for us to submit to him. So it is hardly inappropriate to bring it up.
Brother Bob
New Member
In my experience "bringing it up" brings rebellion. My advice is to build respect from your family and they will gladly let you lead the way.Pastor Larry said:
Had a brother-in-law who was arguing with his wife and told her she was to "summit to him, for he was the head of the house", she hit him over the head with the coffee table.
BBob,
My advice is to follow the whole counsel of God and make disciples by modeling it and by teaching it.
Sounds like a key illustration of my point, that we must teach the unlearned and the rebellious.
Why the objection to teaching the Scriptures? Do you think that we naturally obey the Scriptures?
Brother Bob
New Member
I have no objection to teaching scripture at all. I do object to someone picking out the summit part and making it his life work. Seems to me Adam summitted to Eve, rather than the other way around.Pastor Larry said:
When you say "by modeling it", does that mean that you make sure everyone knows your wife summits to you at all times. Tell me something, if your wife does not summit, would you advise someone to leave them, or would you advise them to stay together. It would be wonderful if everything fell right in "order", but that is not "real" life. IMO
I don't live my life with the thought of my wife always summitting to me. I don't think that is the message anyway. The fact that scripture says for the wife to summit, helps but does not get the job done. It takes respect along with it. Seems there are so many threads on BB against women, do you happen to know why??? What if her husband is abusive and a drunkard, and she is a Christian woman. Scripture also says "be ye steadfast and unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord", I think that includes women also.
BBob,
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I am not sure what that means. After reading the whole post, I can only surmise that by "summit" you mean "submit," rather than the top of a mountain. In that case, I am not sure that I have ever seen anyone who makes the wife's submission his life's work. I think that would be a pretty empty and frustrating life.
And what was the result? Sin entered the world. So that doesn't seem a real good argument for your side.
No, by modeling it I mean model what it means to be a Christian living in submission God.
I would advise them to stay together and learn to live biblically.
I don't see how that is relevant. I don't either. I rarely think about it but then I am blessed to have a wife who takes the Scriptures seriously.
Then why does it say it?
Respect, in Eph 5, is from the wife to the husband; the husband is to love the wife as Christ loved the church.
I haven't seen any threads against women, so I can't comment on it. But I don't read them all so I may have missed something.
What if? What's the biblical response? Without knowing more I can't answer that.
So do I. But again, how is that relevant here?
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Brother Bob
New Member
Pastor Larry said:
Probably none
BBob,.
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No, not saying that at all. Submission is a lifestyle, not only an act. It should be an 'all the time' thing.
Not sure what you mean by "life or death" but it is a command of God and a pattern for living in this world, so I would say that makes it pretty important. But I not for capital punishment for non-submitting women.
I don't think you can. But I am confused as to your point.
I don't think you can. I was merely pointing out which words Scripture used.
No wife should disobey God in the name of submission. But rarely is that an issue, I would imagine.
Brother Bob
New Member
I don't think we are in disagreement that much. I have known many christian women who were at the mercy of drunken husbands though.Pastor Larry said:
BBob,
Brother Shane
New Member
SUBMIT', v.i. To surrender; to yield one's person to the power of another; to give up resistance. The enemy submitted.
1. To yield one's opinion to the opinion or authority of another.
On hearing the opinion of the court, the counsel submitted without further argument.
2. To be subject; to acquiesce in the authority of another.
To thy husband's will thine shall submit
3. To be submissive; to yield without murmuring.
Our religion requires us -- to submit to pain, disgrace and even death.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,submit
No where in the Bible do we see that that this rule is no longer invalid, therefore wives must obey this commandment.
1. To yield one's opinion to the opinion or authority of another.
On hearing the opinion of the court, the counsel submitted without further argument.
2. To be subject; to acquiesce in the authority of another.
To thy husband's will thine shall submit
3. To be submissive; to yield without murmuring.
Our religion requires us -- to submit to pain, disgrace and even death.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,submit
No where in the Bible do we see that that this rule is no longer invalid, therefore wives must obey this commandment.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Since I said that if a husband has to tell his wife to be submissive that he has lost that battle, let me defend it. It was said in the context not of teaching it in the church, but of a husband/wife relationship. I teach this in our church. But too many husbands use this as the only reason why a wife ought to be submissive to her own husband. I stll believe that if a husband loves his wife with a Christ-like, sacrifical love, she will have no problem to submitting to him with a (hopefully) church-like submissiveness.
Tom Bryant said:
Tom - You're right. No where in Scripture are we told to make our husbands love us or told that the husband is to make the wife submit or respect him. It's a directive to a person - for their own hearts to lead them. So it's up to the husband to decide to love the wife and it's up to the wife to submit and respect her husband.