The role of the wife.

[Brother Shane]

And if we lived in Old Testament times, he would have been stoned to death for adultery and she would be free to marry because she would be a widow. And before you give us the we do not live under the law anymore excuse, Jesus said He came to fulfil the law. God divorced Israel for adultery. Case closed.

I guess you think your current vows “till death do us part" are part of the "Old Testament times", too, huh? You can not pick and choose.

 

[abcgrad94]

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that you have had such a very terrible experience with your husband. I feel led, though, to caution you to forgive him and not to allow a root of bitterness to develop.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

I do speak from personal experience, and know how difficult it is to forgive someone who has hurt us dreadfully....however, it is imperative that you do forgive and allow God to heal you.

It has been my experience that trials are designed by God to help us grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We are continually being conformed into the image of Christ through our difficulties. One way in which we are conformed is to search the Scriptures to see how to react in a Godly manner to our trials.

That said, I am sure you know what I am getting at.....your husband sinned, and was at fault....this does not mean that God's Word is to blame. God sets out specific tenets which WORK....submitting to one another in love. Your husband sinned, this does not provide an excuse for us to say that we will NEVER submit to another husband.

I believe, though, that you are speaking out of your hurt. You need time to heal...do not rush into another relationship with a man, but do rush into a closer relationship with the Lord. Seek the Lord and His Righteousness and everything else in your life will fall into place.

I will pray for you, my heart goes out to you for such a difficult time you have had.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

Excellent post, Beth. It's the best response I've seen on this thread!:thumbs:

 

[LadyEagle]

I guess you think your current vows “till death do us part" are part of the "Old Testament times", too, huh? You can not pick and choose.

I'm not the topic of this thread.

 

[Brother Shane]

Are you not a wife?

Regardless if you are or are not, the Bible clearly states that a woman is married to her husband until he dies. That is the ONLY time you will be parted. A judge signing his name on a piece of paper declaring "divorce" does not do a thing for the LORD. You gave your vows before the LORD and you are expected to follow those vows.

 

[annsni]

Matthew 5:32 - "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

All Jesus is saying is that if a man divorces his wife for any cause besides all forms of sexual immorality, he will be guilty for her sin. This does not say that the man can divorce his wife if she fornicates and does not say the woman can divorce her husband if he fornicates. Can you not notice that Jesus never gave this man permission to divorce? Read the scripture before... "Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement" (Matthew 5:31)... it was said that you can divorce your wife, but Jesus said that ANY MAN that divorces his wife except for the cause of fornication causes her to commit adultery -- if she was already committing adultery. How could he possibly be responsible for the wife's fornication? Jesus is clarifying that the husband will not be held responsible for his fornicating wife.

As I said before -- if you're going to put this philosophy into action, Matthew 5:28 will give every wife the right to divorce her husband on the grounds of adultery.

Theory A just crashed and burned.

Sorry - The Bible doesn't support your theory.

 

[annsni]

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that you have had such a very terrible experience with your husband. I feel led, though, to caution you to forgive him and not to allow a root of bitterness to develop.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

I do speak from personal experience, and know how difficult it is to forgive someone who has hurt us dreadfully....however, it is imperative that you do forgive and allow God to heal you.

It has been my experience that trials are designed by God to help us grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We are continually being conformed into the image of Christ through our difficulties. One way in which we are conformed is to search the Scriptures to see how to react in a Godly manner to our trials.

That said, I am sure you know what I am getting at.....your husband sinned, and was at fault....this does not mean that God's Word is to blame. God sets out specific tenets which WORK....submitting to one another in love. Your husband sinned, this does not provide an excuse for us to say that we will NEVER submit to another husband.

I believe, though, that you are speaking out of your hurt. You need time to heal...do not rush into another relationship with a man, but do rush into a closer relationship with the Lord. Seek the Lord and His Righteousness and everything else in your life will fall into place.

I will pray for you, my heart goes out to you for such a difficult time you have had.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

Beth - Thank you for your kind words. This is the kind of counsel a woman who's been through a bad marriage needs.

 

[Brother Shane]

Sorry - The Bible doesn't support your theory.

Oh yes it does ma'am. In fact, the only time "saving for the cause of fornication" (your only reason to believe divorce is permitted) is mentioned in the Bible is in the gospel inspired for the Jews (who practiced betrothal) -- Matthew. Tell me, if the Bible supports YOUR theory, why when Jesus was approached on numerous accounts -- he shot down ALL CIRCUMSTANCES for divorce?

 

[Brother Bob]

As I said before -- if you're going to put this philosophy into action, Matthew 5:28 will give every wife the right to divorce her husband on the grounds of adultery.

Theory A just crashed and burned.

You are assuming that every man lusts. You don't know what is in another man's heart.

Also, when scripture says "except", Jesus put that in there for a reason, not just to take up space.

In the first place, I do not believe you are 17. In the second place, I do not believe in divorce for any cause, but fornication, which Jesus made a special effort to let us know. You say, well it is just in Matt;, I take the whole Bible, not just cherry pick for what fits my belief.

3924
parektoV
parektos
par-ek-tos'
from para - para 3844 and ektoV - ektos 1622; near outside, i.e. besides:--except, saving, without

Jesus said "causes her to committ adultery" and you say it doesn't. Now who do you think I am going to believe?

Mat 5:32

​

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.



BBob,

 

[LadyEagle]

Are you not a wife?

Regardless if you are or are not, the Bible clearly states that a woman is married to her husband until he dies. That is the ONLY time you will be parted. A judge signing his name on a piece of paper declaring "divorce" does not do a thing for the LORD. You gave your vows before the LORD and you are expected to follow those vows.

The Bible says:

I Cor. 7:15 "But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. It is to peace that God has called you." KJV says under bondage.

"But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace."

God divorced Israel for adultery.

 

[Cutter]

Oh yes it does ma'am. In fact, the only time "saving for the cause of fornication" (your only reason to believe divorce is permitted) is mentioned in the Bible is in the gospel inspired for the Jews (who practiced betrothal) -- Matthew. Tell me, if the Bible supports YOUR theory, why when Jesus was approached on numerous accounts -- he shot down ALL CIRCUMSTANCES for divorce?

Brother Shane, You and Christians like you are the exact reason people like Joel Osteen are so popular. Although I do not agree with the message of Osteen, people know they are not going to be stoned when they flock to his church. You use much scripture. How about these verses?
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[LadyEagle]

And Shane, ever heard of the word "grace?"

 

[Brother Shane]

You are assuming that every man lusts. You don't know what is in another man's heart.

Right -- I do apologize.

Also, when scripture says "except", Jesus put that in there for a reason, not just to take up space.

My Bible says "saving". And you are correct, by the way.

In the first place, I do not believe you are 17.

:laugh: That does not matter. It is irrelevant. But I can assure you I am though.

In the second place, I do not believe in divorce for any cause, but fornication, which Jesus made a special effort to let us know.

You have misinterpreted that scripture. I have already stated why that is in that verse. Go back and read it. Then, check your theory along with Jesus'.

You say, well it is just in Matt;, I take the whole Bible, not just cherry pick for what fits my belief.

No, you did not take the whole Bible -- you took Matthew. Matthew is not the whole Bible. Matthew is the only book in the Bible that addressed fornication with divorce.

Now who cherry picked?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Ephesians 5:23-25 (New International Version)

23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

Colossians 3:17-19 (New International Version)

17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Rules for Christian Households
18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

Scripture must always be taken in context and we see in these two passages that the husband is not simply to be the boss ... but he is to sacrifice for his wife and family and he is not to be harsh to them. Christ sacrificed himself for the church, i.e. for all of us. He did not do what he desired and that was not to go to the cross. Remember he prayed that the cup, the cross, be taken away ... but added that God's will be done. So the husband has a great responsibility, to sacrifice his own desires and interests for the good of the wife and famil.

 

[Brother Bob]

Right -- I do apologize.



My Bible says "saving". And you are correct, by the way.



:laugh: That does not matter. It is irrelevant. But I can assure you I am though.



You have misinterpreted that scripture. I have already stated why that is in that verse. Go back and read it. Then, check your theory along with Jesus'.



No, you did not take the whole Bible -- you took Matthew. Matthew is not the whole Bible. Matthew is the only book in the Bible that addressed fornication with divorce.

Now who cherry picked?

Well we agree on most, but you are wrong when you say I do not take the whole Bible. Just because it is the only book that addresses fornication with divorce, does not mean you can dismiss it.

You also, say I need to go back and read what you wrote, does that mean that Jesus needs to go back and read what you wrote also.

BTW, are you saying that Jesus misspoke in Matt, or what?

I say exactly what Jesus said. Why in the world would He say "except" for the cause of fornication, if He did not mean it. I have dealt with this very question for 35 years, in dealing with members and feel as comfortable as I can, with how I understand it. I will admit, that no one has the exact answer for double marriage. I have searched from the beginning to the end all these years and have never completely satisfied myself about double marriage. I have hunted for "causes" for divorce, so it would settle my mind in receiving double married, and all I have ever been able to find is "fornication". I at least will continue to use the only cause I can find Jesus giving us.

The subject you are dealing with is probably the hardest subject in the Bible and if you ever become a Pastor/Moderator, you will have to really search your soul then. It is much easier to say what you do, when you do not have to make the decision of receiving or dismissing of members, but when that is in the equation also, it becomes "soul searching time".


BBob,

 

[Brother Shane]

]The Bible says:

I Cor. 7:15 "But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so; in such a case the brother or sister is not bound. It is to peace that God has called you." KJV says under bondage.

"But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace."

God divorced Israel for adultery.

You need to go study on what "bondage" means. I do not have time to touch base on "douloo" --- "bondage", but can assure you that Corinthians 7:15 does not refer to divorce as much as you want it to. It means to make a "slave" of -- and the Bible never refers to marriage as slavery. Substitute "bondage" for "marriage" and you'll see what I mean. Even if it DID mean what you want it to mean, she still would be married to him, not "bound" to him.


You're correct - God divorced Israel. He also burned Sodom and Gomorrah. Does that mean we have the right to do that as well? For both case, I ask for your scriptural reference.

 

[Brother Shane]

Brother Shane, You and Christians like you are the exact reason people like Joel Osteen are so popular. Although I do not agree with the message of Osteen, people know they are not going to be stoned when they flock to his church. You use much scripture. How about these verses?
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

If I had a dollar for how many times I have been told "Judge not", I'd be rich. But if I had a penny for every person in this world that misinterprets that scripture, I'd be even richer.

 

[Brother Shane]

Well we agree on most, but you are wrong when you say I do not take the whole Bible. Just because it is the only book that addresses fornication with divorce, does not mean you can dismiss it.

Whenever it is only found in the book that is inspired for the Jews who actually practiced betrothal and would actually NEED that clarification -- and it is NO WHERE ELSE condoned or permitted by Jesus ANYWHERE in the Bible (actually condemned!) -- I believe you have no other choice.

You also, say I need to go back and read what you wrote, does that mean that Jesus needs to go back and read what you wrote also.

What I wrote was scripture. Jesus said it. I think not.

BTW, are you saying that Jesus misspoke in Matt, or what?

Apparently, you're saying that Jesus misspoke himself in all other instances about divorce with fornication and the "right" to divorce, except for in the only book that is inspired for the Jews who practice betrothal?!

I say exactly what Jesus said. Why in the world would He say "except" for the cause of fornication, if He did not mean it.

To clarify that to the Jews who practiced betrothal that the man would not be held responsible for the woman's fornication -- that's why.

I have dealt with this very question for 35 years, in dealing with members and feel as comfortable as I can, with how I understand it. I will admit, that no one has the exact answer for double marriage. I have searched from the beginning to the end all these years and have never completely satisfied myself about double marriage. I have hunted for "causes" for divorce, so it would settle my mind in receiving double married, and all I have ever been able to find is "fornication". I at least will continue to use the only cause I can find Jesus giving us.

Maybe that problem will be gone when you teach that divorce is sin?! There's your answer.

 

[Cutter]

If I had a dollar for how many times I have been told "Judge not", I'd be rich. But if I had a penny for every person in this world that misinterprets that scripture, I'd be even richer.

Is this just an exaggeration or a bald face lie?

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Brother Shane]

Is that scripture just another one you used that is irrelevant to the topic or another way to try and prove your theory?

 

[Amy.G]

Bro. Shane, have you read this scripture?

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.