The Sanctity of Life...Body,Spirit, and Soul

[Happy]

Darrell C said: ↑

What "changes in the body?"

Could you please provide a Scriptural basis for this statement?

There is no "new body" for the Spirit of God to enter...He enters the one we are born with.

We have a new spirit and new heart, not because God needs something "to go into," but we have a new heart and spirit because God enters into us.

Again...where is your Scripture?

Support your statement.
Scripture?
Scripture?

Again, where you are making a mistake is in not distinguishing between physical and spiritual life, then, to add to that, the distinction between spiritual life being Eternal or not.

All men have a body, all men have a spirit, and all men are living souls (which applies whether they are physically alive or not). However, not all men have Eternal Life, we are in fact born without life, because we are born separated from God.


God bless.

You say it, but apparently do not comprehend it.

No, there is no "new body".
There IS a new "heart".
That IS what the Spirit of God enters.

God DOES require "something" ( a chamber, a vessel, a thing ) to be HOLY for Him to enter into it.

All men ARE a body ~ formed by God.
The body does NOTHING of its own (independently) until it is born and receives it's own living soul from God.

Everything that is in that "independent" body, is that man, and is called by the name of that man.

When that body is born, it becomes that man.
When that body is born and receives a living soul, it becomes that man.
When that man learns to talk, his word spoken becomes that man.

When that man learns "things", he decides if it is true, and that truth, becomes his truth, and he himself.
When that man thinks "in his own mind" if he wants to lie or speak the truth, that also is the man himself, ie his word.

When the flesh is born, it IS corrupt, because of the natural seed (sperm) it came from.
Because the flesh body IS corrupt, everything IN the body is subject to corruption of the flesh body.

Because of corruption OF the body ~ the body suffers diseases, the soul suffers, the natural spirit in a mans heart suffers, the mindful thoughts suffer.

And aside from all of those "things" suffering physically, mentally, emotionally, truthfully.....they become "separated from God".

ALL "separations from God" is death.

God has provided mankind a WAY, to remedy his "separation from God".

The "remedy", is "according to" Gods WAY and ORDER.

It all begins with a man first recognizing a need for Gods remedy and reconciliation.

The ORDER is to first LEARN ABOUT GOD ~
To open ones ears to hearing, and then reading, ie being "enlightened" to Gods Truth.
A man must make his own decision to TRUST Gods word, teaching, way.

A man who decides to completely TRUST God ~ will follow after Him ~ even when the man does not yet understand.

A man who decides to continue following after God ~ will eventually SUBMIT "his corrupt" life unto Gods authority.

IF you have submitted your life unto Gods authority ~ you did so BECAUSE you TRUST GOD, and are faithful to Him above all other things.

A man WHO HAS submitted their life unto Gods authority ~
The man made the "choice" -
God "responds" "quickly" -

God forgives the "separation from Him" ~
God sanctifies the flesh body, sets it aside as "justified" to be "changed" along with ALL faithful to Him.
God "restores" the soul, that it shall FOREVER keep life from Him 'in it".
God "rebirths" (with His SEED) the natural spirit of man, into a FOREVER LIVING spiritual spirit.
God "gives the man" a "new heart", that is holy, for which HIS Spirit may be imparted into the man.
Gods Spirit "dwells" in the mans "new heart", WITH the mans "new spiritual spirit".

Gods Spirit "communicates" teaches, reveals, gives wisdom, gives understanding OF His TRUTH; via His Spirit to the mans spirit.

Forever that man is restored FROM corruption and separation from God.
Forever that man is SAVED unto God and SHALL forever LIVE with God and God with the man.

God created the earth.
God created mankind to inhabit the earth.
God prepared mankind to be his "subjects", to learn from him, HOW TO, be like Him, and all men inhabit the earth ACCORDING TO HIS "likeness", "love", "mindset".

Mankind "corrupted" Gods desire.
However there are a FEW of "mankind" WHO DO want the same as God Desires ~
And God HAS PROVIDED A WAY, for the FEW to achieve becoming LIKE Him....
AND inhabiting the earth, with Him as the head of government, ie their KING, His Kingdom.

For a man to become "with" God, the man MUST FIRST be born of WATER and born of the SPIRIT of God. (Gods Seed).

John.3

1. [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In the "end" ~ mankind will be WITH God in His Kingdom.....or NOT.

A final "separation" is being "effected" every day, for individuals, as individuals CHOOSE to submit unto God, and others CHOOSE, not to.

A last day has already be determined, BY God, in which ALL Choices of mankind will END, and the separation OR enjoining to God will come to an end.

Of those enjoined to God; they will remain restored, renewed, quickened, changed and occupy Gods Kingdom as inhabitants.

Of those separated FROM God;
they will have LIFE departed from their BODY (blood and living soul).
they will have NEVER received a new forever living spiritual spirit, from Gods Seed.
Their body, void of life, shall be destroyed.
Their soul, void of life, shall be destroyed.

Your continuing to preach a FETUS is an "individual" is nonsense.
It is "developing" into a man, BECAUSE it is "dependent" upon the mother's BLOOD.
That FETUS is NOT BORN of water.
That FETUS is NOT BORN of the Spirit of God.
That FETUS is NOT BORN period!
That FETUS is NOT a man, born of the earth, of WHICH, it can be changed, transformed, and born of God.

Read and Trust the Scriptures ~ A man must FIRST be born of water and the Spirit to become reconciled unto God.

Read and Trust the Scriptures ~ Where in ALL of Scriptures does it teach you something NOT BORN, is BORN "AGAIN"?

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
As well, as already pointed out, that God views the life in the womb as an individual life, requiring Life for Life if that life is terminated.

Doesn't need to, because there is a difference, also already pointed out, between the creative formation of the first man...and procreation.

Secondly, there is a distinction made in Scripture between Adam and those born under the curse. Man comes into this world now in a fallen state, so a comparison between how Adam was formed and how babies are formed is moot.

What is not moot is the fact that you have adopted a liberal view, and because of this you must incessantly argue what is basic in Scripture.

If what has been said already cannot compel you to be direct about what is written, it is doubtful anything can.

You still ignore the simple fact that if the baby dies, the offender's own life is forfeit. That creates an equality between the life that is in the womb and the life of the offender.

That's just the fact that will destroy the liberal, child murdering doctrine of Liberals.


God bless.

God formED Adam.

This is true, but as already noted your error is to fail to distinguish Adam being formed of the ground, Eve formed from living tissue, and...

...Procreation.

You also fail to produce Scripture to support your erroneous and oftentimes Liberal philosophies.

You also fail to address the Scripture presented to you.

Not sure exactly what you think can be accomplished if the Word of God is left out of your worldview.

God forms all others.

But not in the same way. In the formation related to the Six Days of Creation, we see the first of all beasts and Man. Following that we see procreation.

My view concerning Scripture is not political.

It is. How else can you explain calling a babe in the womb, contrary to Scripture...a thing.

My view is based on Scripture.

Then produce Scripture that is relevant to your philosophy.

You make a false statement.

Everything I have said is true. Point out what you feel is false and we will look at it again, though I doubt seriously you want me to elaborate more than I already have.

I have said repeatedly; if a pregnant woman is injured by an other and the baby is delivered and lives, the husband of the woman determines the culprits punishment. If the baby is delivered and dies because of the injury caused the culprits punishment is death.

You're hung up on the "delivery." The "delivery" is the fruit departing the womb, or in other words...the child is born due to the fight. If the child is okay, then a penalty is exacted. If there is mischief (injury), then life for life, eye for an eye is exacted. If the child dies as a result of the fight and subsequent premature birth, the offender dies. If the child's eye has been lost, the offender's eye will also be put out. If the child loses a limb, the offender also loses that limb.

That's the one point you are trying to delete from the Law: an identical consequence is exacted if there is any injury to the child. That you try to make the child a "fetus" while in the womb and a child after delivery does not make a shred of sense. If the child is born dead...the offender's life is still forfeit, despite the fact the child never took...

...the first breath.

You defeat your own philosophy by emphasizing delivery of oxygen to an unborn child.

No it does not create any equality of a fetus in the womb.

It does, but your Liberal Worldview will not allow you to see this. Just like Liberals do not see Obama directly telling the Russian Leader "I will have more leeway after the election," yet they "see" collusion between Trump and Russia.

Sad, really.

Could I ask you...exactly what kind of Baptist are you anyway?

The scenario is pursuant to life for life, only after the fetus is delivered (born) and an independent life separated from the mother.

But if the child is killed during the fight and it is a miscarriage...

...this is not a child being "delivered," any more than an abortion is a "delivery," it is...

...murder.

And God demands the life of those who murder infants in the womb.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
Show me in Scripture where man "receives a living soul." I know of only one text that even comes close to that, and that does not alleviate the problem of the many passages that make it clear that "soul" is a reference to a person in their totality.

And you can save yourself some time in posting repeats of what you have already stated which has been addressed.


God bless.

Let me point out what you can never do:

Show me in Scripture where man "receives a living soul."

Again ~

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

God makes "souls".

This is true.

God imparts "life from Him" into souls.

On the contrary, it is because men are not born with the life of God that they are in a fallen state.

This is why God manifested in flesh, that He might reconcile the world unto Himself.

Here is more Scripture speaking about that:


John 6:31-33
King James Version (KJV)

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.


Note that the Jews boast of the provision of God in the Wilderness. Christ corrects their view that it was Moses, but rather, God Who gave them that provision.

Then note that He contrasts the physical provision given in the Wilderness, and the Spiritual/Eternal Provision given through Christ.


John 6:47-51
King James Version (KJV)

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


A couple things to consider, Happy:

1. Christ is the source of everlasting life, and that is not something bestowed upon men at birth (hence their fallen state);

2. The provision in the Wilderness (manna) did not provide anything but physical sustenance (in other words it kept them physically alive only);

3. Christ states they are...dead. And what you need to understand is that the death referred to is physical death, which contrasts the spiritual life Christ came to bring.

4. The Living Bread came down from Heaven. This is a reference to the Incarnation, and sets the timeline for bestowal of Everlasting life.

5. The "Bread of Life" is explicitly identified as being through...the Cross of Christ (which means that we don't precede the bestowal of Everlasting life...before Christ dies (gives His life for the world)).


Until you understand the difference between physical life and spiritual life, and the difference between spiritual life and Everlasting Life, you will hold to the Liberal philosophies you have been presenting.

You equate Adam's creation/formation with procreation in a fallen world, and that is a mistake.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

God imparts "living souls" into man (body)

Nowhere in Scripture do we see this stated.

It is the syllogistic conclusion you have arrived at.

God gives men spirits, not souls, and God gives men (and beasts) a body, hence man is, not has, a living soul.

Man (body) is thus quickened to living.

You erroneously apply a salvific term to man's existence in the natural.

Man is quickened (made alive) physically, to be sure, but, that has nothing to do with being made alive in Christ.

And it is not because man "receives a soul," but because the body receives a spirit.

I showed you this already:


Luke 24:36-39
King James Version (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


It is not the "soul" that departs, but the spirit. It can be called a soul departing because "soul" refers to the person, regardless of whether they are in union with their body or not. But Christ and the disciples identify the death process, and when they thought Him dead, separated from His body, they thought they were seeing His spirit.

Man is thus living.

True.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Man continues living BECAUSE of his BLOOD.

Well, he continues to live because of his heart, kidneys, and liver as well.

That the "life is in the blood" is a direct reference to the sacrificial system and the significance is specific to the blood-letting that preceded the death of a sacrifice:


Leviticus 17:10-11

King James Version (KJV)

10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.


Now, what I want you to consider here, Happy, is what "atonement for your souls" means. If the Popular Pulpit understanding that a soul is an immaterial aspect of man, rather than a reference to the person, then what God is saying here is that atonement is being made on an Eternal level.

And the entire Word of God makes it clear that this is not the case.

An example:

Hebrews 10:1-4
King James Version (KJV)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


"Perfection" in the Greek means "completion," a "bringing to an end, or in other words...making something finally and fully done. The context of this Chapter is remission of sins, which was, like cleansing, the new heart, the new spirit, and the indwelling of God's Spirit on an eternal basis...the Promise of God to man throughout Scripture.

The "atonement in view concerning Leviticus 17 is a temporal, temporary, and physical covering, just as the skins of animals that clothed the shame of Adam and Eve were. They did not take away sins, nor did literal blood take on a supernatural or spiritual and definitely not an eternal quality in regards to the sacrifices offered up to the day of the Cross.

So we revisit your statement again...

Man continues living BECAUSE of his BLOOD.

No, man continues to live due to the grace of God. Men can circumvent life based on a man's blood with blood transfusions. That is not the source of life. God's grace is the source of life.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Blood stops flowing, man (body) dies.

This is true. But the body also dies if the kidneys stop functioning. If the lungs stop functioning.

Living soul departs the mans dying body.

And I agree with this. Because the term "soul" applies to a person. It is proper to say a "soul departs the body," but we don't make "soul" an aspect of man's existence, it is a reference to his existence.

Living soul continues living.

I agree with this as well. We see "souls" in Heaven, who are the spirits of those who have died physically.

When the Writer of Hebrews is contrasting the Covenant of Law and the New Covenant, he makes the statement...


Hebrews 12:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Remember the previous text, Hebrews 10:1-4? Where the Law could not "make perfect?" Here we see that the Saints who died prior to the Cross (i.e., Abraham, Moses, David, etc.) have been made "perfect" by Christ.

And it their spirits that are referenced.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Body is buried and RETURNS to dust.

True.

All "souls" are Gods.

True.

Gods "breath" is life, IS God.

Borderline heresy.

You are equating the "breath of life" with God Himself. The life God gives to men and beasts is not "God." He does not impart Himself into either men or beasts when He gives them physical life.

Gods "LIFE" can NEVER be destroyed.

True.

Souls can have life departed from them.

True.

Souls can be destroyed.

Not true. Even when the spirits of men leave the physical body, they continue to exist. This is true for both the lost and the saved.

Bodies can have life departed from them.

True.

Bodies can be destroyed.

True.

Spiritual spirits can never die.

Do you know of a spirit that is not spiritual?

No spirit can die, that we know of, because we are told all spirits that are separated from God will endure eternal separation from God in Hell.

Spiritual spirits can never be destroyed.

In fact they can, as long as we properly identify what it means to "destroy," which is not a cessation of existence.


Matthew 10:28
King James Version (KJV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The significance of this verse is that those who end up in Hell will...have a body.

Remember, both the Just and the unjust will be resurrected:


Daniel 12:1-2

King James Version (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Revelation 20
King James Version (KJV)

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

All men born of the earth have a body made by God.

True.

All men born of the earth have a living soul.

All men of the earth are living souls.

All men born of the earth have blood that is the life of their body.

They also have lungs, kidneys, and immune systems which are the life of their body.

All men born of the earth DO NOT receive a forever living spiritual spirit which lives forever.

On the contrary, all men receive spirits that will endure eternity.

And that brings us back to the distinction we make between having a spirit and having spiritual life, which is properly having the Life of GOd, which was something not possible for men until the Bread of Heaven came down to give His life, that He might bestow Everlasting Life unto men by immersing them into Himself.

We have everlasting life only by being brought into union with God Himself. That is the reconciliatory process accomplished by Christ.

While the natural man has physical life, and has a spirit, and is a living soul, we know that despite that the natural man is dead.


John 6:51-53
King James Version (KJV)

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


This statement was made to natural men who did not have life. The only way for them to have life was to believe on Christ's death.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑

What "changes in the body?"

Could you please provide a Scriptural basis for this statement?

There is no "new body" for the Spirit of God to enter...He enters the one we are born with.

We have a new spirit and new heart, not because God needs something "to go into," but we have a new heart and spirit because God enters into us.

Again...where is your Scripture?

Support your statement.
Scripture?
Scripture?

Again, where you are making a mistake is in not distinguishing between physical and spiritual life, then, to add to that, the distinction between spiritual life being Eternal or not.

All men have a body, all men have a spirit, and all men are living souls (which applies whether they are physically alive or not). However, not all men have Eternal Life, we are in fact born without life, because we are born separated from God.


God bless.

Your continuing to preach a FETUS is an "individual" is nonsense.
It is "developing" into a man, BECAUSE it is "dependent" upon the mother's BLOOD.

Your continuing to preach Liberal Philosophy is nauseating.

Job seems to think he was alive in the womb:


Job 3:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?


So did the Psalmist:


Psalm 139:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.


See the link: in view is protection.

You advocate contrary to God's Own view of the child in the womb. He protects...you destroy.


Ecclesiastes 11:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.


Again, the spirit is referenced, not the "soul."


Isaiah 13:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.


In view is death of people. The fruit of the womb is included.


Isaiah 49:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.


God's purpose for men, at least for several noted in Scripture, is from the womb.


Jeremiah 1:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


We can go on, if you like.


Continue...

 

[Darrell C]

That FETUS is NOT BORN of water.

Do you even know what "water" is in view?

It is not physical water.

It is the Word of God.

That FETUS is NOT BORN of the Spirit of God.

It is my belief that the murdered children of Abortion, which continues unabated due in large part by the Liberal Heresy you teach...

...are in fact regenerated when they are put to death.

You have to understand that no Old Testament Saint was regenerated prior to the Cross and specifically the coming of the Comforter. Hence we have them dying without being made alive. The life they needed came down from Heaven after their death, and this is what the Writer of Hebrews speaks of in regards to "the spirits of just men made perfect."

In order for men to come into the presence of God they must be born again, and it is the grace of God that bestows life to those who have not received the Revelation of the Gospel, and had a chance to be born again in their physical lives.

Your continuing to preach a FETUS is an "individual" is nonsense.
It is "developing" into a man, BECAUSE it is "dependent" upon the mother's BLOOD.
That FETUS is NOT BORN of water.
That FETUS is NOT BORN of the Spirit of God.
That FETUS is NOT BORN period!
That FETUS is NOT a man, born of the earth, of WHICH, it can be changed, transformed, and born of God.

The child is not a fetus.

Read and Trust the Scriptures ~ A man must FIRST be born of water and the Spirit to become reconciled unto God.

Funny that one who seldom even refers to the Word of God would advise me to trust the Scriptures.

And by the way, if you would actually like to know what being born again means let me know.

Read and Trust the Scriptures ~ Where in ALL of Scriptures does it teach you something NOT BORN, is BORN "AGAIN"?

Well, you would need to understand Regeneration, when it began, and how it occurs in order to understand how someone (not some thing) can be regenerate without actually having been born.

Let me know if you are interested.


God bless.

 

[Happy]

That's not really the point, because I do believe a "soul" requires "restoring," the restoration being to a relationship with God, which a person is born without.

Yes, the soul requires "restoring".
"restoration of the soul being a relationship with God" ?
No. "restoration of the soul" is "restoring the life of the body".
The "relationship" with God is VIA, a man receiving the Seed of God, which BIRTHS the mans "born again" spirit.
It is God Spirit to mans "new spirit", which is the relationship, communication, fellowship, between mankind and God.

Think about it Happy: if God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself...when did that begin?

Right after Adams admission of disobedience and right before he was expelled from the Garden, Adam's SIN (flesh) was covered ~ which it is later we learn disobedience of the flesh to God is called SIN, and SIN that is covered, is forgiven SIN.

Gen 3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

You can replace "soul" with "person" and understand most texts in that perspective, and keep the original understanding of what is being said. When a "soul went down into the grave" in view is not the immaterial aspect of that person going into a physical grave, it is simply a way to say...they died.

You can ~ however IF you want to UNDERSTAND Scripture "spiritually" (rather than carnally), you would learn the body, soul, spirit are separate things with the SAME identity.

The body, is made from a natural element called earth, formed by God, in a womb.
The soul, is made by God.
The soul, is imparted into the body, via God blowing His breath into the formed independent body.
Gods breath is Life.
The spirit of man is natural, (mans natural truth), and is in a mans natural heart.

Reconciliation unto God requires, the body, to become dead, before it can be made alive with Gods Seed.
The body requires Gods Seed / Spirit (Power) / Authority / to enter the man to internally make "changes" within the man.
The soul requires restoration.
The spirit requires a new birth.
The heart requires circumcision, ie a new heart.
The man requires a new TRUE truth. (Christ Jesus)
The man is thus prepared to serve God ACCORDING to Gods WAY, not mans ideas and philosophies.

A "saint" (in a context dealing with believers, the term is also used of Angels) is a believer, one who belongs to God, not...a born again believer. In other words, a Saint in the Old Testament should not be equated with a Saint in the New in regards to Revelation and Regeneration.

An angel was created with Gods truth.
An earthly man is born, without Gods truth.

And earthly man, called a saint, is a man WHO has been born again of Gods Seed.

Your "in other words" is nonsense.
You learning Gods WORD was manifested in the flesh in the likeness of mankind, and seen of mankind and trusted and believed by mankind and "acceptable" to God...

Does not change the fact that men in the OT (without knowing Gods Word, called JESUS, was kept secret from them), such men Believed and Trusted Gods Word, and forever were FAITHFUL to God, and favored of God, and given the Same SEED of God, as ANY man, in ANY era who submit unto God.

Abraham did not place his faith in Christ Jesus, for example, he did not trust that Christ died for him. He did not receive the Spirit that Christ sent...after He returned to heaven from whence He came.

Abram ~ absolutely DID trust and place His FAITH in Gods Word, (even when Abram did NOT know the name of Gods Word)

You can READ OT men were "Saints", but IF you do not know the signs (knowledge) of WHY, you will also have difficulty recognizing other signs given us, and WHAT they mean.

Favored of God.
God finds grace in a man.
Beloved of God.
Name of man changed.
Specific man given promises.
Men called Saints.

^ ALL "signs" that that man IS faithful to God, and restored and quickened BY Gods Spirit.
And the KNOWLEDGE is revealed, such men are ALWAYS faithful TO God.

God saw grace in Noah.
Rachel was favored.
Joseph was favored.
Children without blemish were favored.
Eleazar was favored.
Mary was favored.
Solomon was beloved.
Daniel was beloved.
Samuel was beloved.
Jacob, name changed and beloved.
Abram, name changed and beloved.
John was beloved.
Peter, name changed and beloved.
Barnabas was beloved.
Paul was beloved.
Timotheus was beloved.
Tychicus was beloved.
Philemon was beloved.
Timothy was beloved.

Jesus, revealed is the Christ and beloved.

And on an on, men who BECAME Saints is revealed, BY WHAT is "revealed" ABOUT them.

And a man WHO becomes a Saint is a man WHO has become restored and quickened, BECAUSE of his choosing to submit to the Lord, and the Lord WHO IS FAITHFUL, "changes the man and KEEPS the man faithful to the Lord with HIS Power (Spirit).

He did not receive the Spirit that Christ sent...after He returned to heaven from whence He came.

Nonsense. Christ IS the Spirit of God. Jesus' BODY was prepared and SENT to Earth and Returned to Heaven. The Spirit of Gods WORD, remains ON EARTH, entering the new hearts of MEN "WHO" submit their lives in faithfulness to the Lord.

Heb.10

1. [5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

John 14

[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

IF YOU are not in Heaven, and YOU love the Lord, "His Word is IN YOU, on Earth".

Now, to answer the question more specifically, Old Testament Saints became "saints" the same way we do...by coming to obedience to God's revelation of His will for our lives. And His will is that we come into obedience...

...to the Gospel.

You just contradicted yourself ~ attempting to "justify your contradiction with the qualifier" "Gospel".

The Gospel of Jesus, is about the Kingdom, which is to say, it is ABOUT "HOW" and "WHERE" a "changed" man will be with the Lord.

OT men were given knowledge they would be WITH God.
We are given the knowledge of HOW and WHERE men will be with God.

It does not change the fact of WHICH men will be with God. It is always applicable to to men WHO are faithful to God, "regardless" of the "era" in which they were born and became faithful to God.

Right, this speaks of the time when we are physically resurrected...not during our lifetimes. This is when our flesh is redeemed.

You imply a purity for the physical body which does not exist for those of us who are saved. We remain in fallen flesh. And will until we are resurrected at the Rapture.

The OLD is dead. The NEW is sanctified, (ie made holy).

You physically wait to physically SEE. However scripture teaches, Gods word spoken is already done! You can speak of Scripture in the carnal understanding or seek Gods understanding.



Rom.6
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

Rom.15

1. [16] That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Ecc 3:
[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
That's not really the point, because I do believe a "soul" requires "restoring," the restoration being to a relationship with God, which a person is born without.

Yes, the soul requires "restoring".

And if we replace "soul" with "person" we get the same meaning.

"restoration of the soul being a relationship with God" ?

Correct: all men are conceived out of relationship with God, and are in need of restoration to relationship with God, which relationship they are conceived without.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
King James Version (KJV)

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Now, you argue for regenerate Old Testament Saints however, if Reconciliation did not begin until Christ appeared (and we know this because until the New Covenant was established men were still offering up the sacrifice of animals for the atonement of their souls (persons)). If you deny that what you do is give physical atonement provided in the Old Testament Sacrifice (and began with Adam, is seen carried out by Abel, as well as Noah, Abraham, and Job) a spiritual and Eternal value...it does not have.

And that is what you are doing.

Consider:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


Now look at this carefully:

1. The Writer contrasts the provision for atonement prior to Christ's Sacrifice, which was the blood of goats and calves (remember what he states in Hebrews 10:1-4, as well as Hebrews 10:10-14) v.12;

2. It is at this time that Eternal Redemption is obtained (through Christ's offering of Himself), v.12;

3. Christ did not enter an earthly, physical Tabernacle (said to be figure/shadow/parable, or in other words...not the reality of the True Holy of Holies, Heaven), v.12, Hebrews 8:7-9;

4. The physical sacrifices of the provision given in the Old Testament are stated to be physical ("sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh"), which did not preclude man's need to be born again, v.13;

5. Christ's Sacrifice is far more effective as it deals with man in the spiritual (as contrasted with the physical, v.13);

6. His Sacrifice relieves the necessity of the Old Testament provision of Sacrifice, v.14;

7. Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant (as promised by God to Israel/Judah (Hebrews 8:7-13), which in itself designates the Covenant of Law as obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, as well as clearly stated here);

8. It is His Death by which the New Covenant is inaugurated, which denies an application of both the Covenant and the Promises associated with it (i.e., Ezekiel 36:22-27) to those who are throughout Scripture...shown to be in Covenant through differing Covenants (i.e., Abrahamic, Mosaic (Covenant of Law, called the "First Covenant" in Hebrews)), which if you stop and think about, marks the time in which both the New Covenant and the Promises given began (this is a primary mistake most Bible Students make, as they equate the Ages without distinction to the provision given to each group (i.e., from Adam to Noah, Noah to Abraham, Abraham to Moses, and Moses to Christ and the establishment of the New Covenant and the bestowal of the Promises given in preceding Eras));

9. His Death redeemed the transgressions (sins) of those who were under the Covenant of Law, which shows that, again, "the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins," and that those under the Covenant of Law (called the "First Covenant" several times in Hebrews) died...not having their sins atoned for in the Eternal and Spiritual manner promised by God (Hebrews 8:12);

10. The Old Testament Saints (those whose sins were redeemed by Christ retro-actively), at the time of Christ's Death...

...received the Promise of Eternal Inheritance (what the promises understood in a physical sense by those who received them, such as "...all families of the earth being blessed by Abraham's 'Seed'," a King Who would forever occupy the Throne over them, and, being washed and receiving new hearts, new spirits, and the Indwelling of God (Ezekiel 36:22-27, John 14:16-18).


Now, we revisit your statement/question:

"restoration of the soul being a relationship with God" ?

This took place only when Christ appeared, not prior to His Death, and more specifically, when the promised Spirit was sent.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

No. "restoration of the soul" is "restoring the life of the body".

You could not possibly be further from the truth.

This is why I posted reference to the redemption of the body...which will take place for the Church at the Rapture.

The physical body of the born again believer is still in need of resurrection that he/she no longer remain in fallen flesh.

The New Birth is a spiritual resurrection, we await physical resurrection.

The "relationship" with God is VIA, a man receiving the Seed of God, which BIRTHS the mans "born again" spirit.

Man has a "new spirit" due to the indwelling of God. When you were saved, Happy, your spirit was not exchanged for a new one, it was impacted by the presence of God living in you. You are in Him, He is in you, you have been Baptized with the Holy Ghost by Christ, thus "immersed into God."


John 14:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


Two things I want you to consider in the Lord's statement here:

1. This speaks of the Union that would take place between believer and God;

2: Christ makes it clear...

...it is a future event.

And that is apparent throughout John 14-16.

Here is the Lord's conclusion concerning the disciples' "belief:"


John 16:28-32
King James Version (KJV)

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


The disciples are not yet born again believers, my friend. The sooner you understand this the sooner you will understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the New Covenant.

Here is another instance of the disciples' "belief," this time...after the Resurrection:


Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


There are numerous places we see the unbelief of the Disciples of Christ, both before and after the Resurrection of our Lord. The answer lies in the Promises of God, and the Timeline of events. Christ comes, ministers to Israel in the capacity of Messiah as foretold, dies in the capacity of Messiah which was not revealed to men in those Ages, returns to Heaven and sends the Comforter, Who enlightens men to the Gospel, that they might be reconciled to God, their sins forgiven in the Eternal and Spiritual Promise of God.

This is why, Happy, they thought they were seeing a spirit after Christ appeared to them.

Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

It is God Spirit to mans "new spirit", which is the relationship, communication, fellowship, between mankind and God.

It is the union of God and man in an heavenly, Eternal, and spiritual union...that was lost in Adam, and regained through the Death of Christ.

Think about it Happy: if God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself...when did that begin?

Right after Adams admission of disobedience and right before he was expelled from the Garden, Adam's SIN (flesh) was covered ~ which it is later we learn disobedience of the flesh to God is called SIN, and SIN that is covered, is forgiven SIN.

Incorrect, but, most think that, so you are not alone.

The only thing Adam and Eve received, just as every other person who offered up sacrifice for sins...was a temporary and physical covering which could not cleanse the conscience, and could not take away sins.

Note the Writer of Hebrews' commentary on this point:


Hebrews 10:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


The blood of bulls and calves sanctified to the purifying of the flesh, but, when we are sanctified by the Offering of Christ (which he states happens once, and is done), we are made complete in regards to remission of sins...forever. And that was the promise of God concerning the New Covenant He would establish.

Now note vv.11-12: again the reiteration that those sacrifices could not take away sins, that is why they had to minister on a daily basis. That is contrasted with the Everlasting effect of Christ's Sacrifice.

Gen 3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Great. At least one animal died to temporarily cover their sin. If it had been atonement on an eternal basis...things would have returned to normal in the Garden.

You can replace "soul" with "person" and understand most texts in that perspective, and keep the original understanding of what is being said. When a "soul went down into the grave" in view is not the immaterial aspect of that person going into a physical grave, it is simply a way to say...they died.

You can ~ however IF you want to UNDERSTAND Scripture "spiritually" (rather than carnally), you would learn the body, soul, spirit are separate things with the SAME identity.

Great. you understand it "spiritually" and continue to make simple and basic errors, and I will simply understand it as God gave it to us.

We have been given insight to the spiritual meanings given in the Old Testament, now all we have to do is keep everything in it's proper context.

And equating animal sacrifice is not keeping Old Testament Provision in its Biblical context. Until you distinguish the difference, you will do what most do, which is lessen the magnitude of the Cross of Christ, and thus you will convey a weak and erroneous Gospel.

And that is all the time I have for today. Please give these issues some prayerful consideration. Don't take my word for it, ask God, He will speak to your...spirit, and your soul will be made joyous.




God bless.

 

[Happy]

You are equating the "breath of life" with God Himself. The life God gives to men and beasts is not "God." He does not impart Himself into either men or beasts when He gives them physical life.


Not true. Even when the spirits of men leave the physical body, they continue to exist. This is true for both the lost and the saved.

Do you know of a spirit that is not spiritual?

No spirit can die, that we know of, because we are told all spirits that are separated from God will endure eternal separation from God in Hell.

In fact they can, as long as we properly identify what it means to "destroy," which is not a cessation of existence.


Matthew 10:28
King James Version (KJV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The significance of this verse is that those who end up in Hell will...have a body.

Everything that IS God IS God ~ His Mind, His Body, His Soul, His Spirit, His Breath, His Power, His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Authority, His Supremacy, His Word, His Desires, His Pleasure, His Seed....

And the same applies you to ~ And you are accountable for you to God ~ And God is accountable to Himself.

Thanks for quoting the verse that contradicts you saying what I said is not true.

A soul is one thing. A spirit is another thing. And a body is another thing.

A body is an earthen vessel. The body holds life imparted into the body called a LIVING soul.
A soul is a God made vessel. The soul hold life from God imparted into the soul.
A heart is a vessel. The heart physically holds blood. The heart also hold the truth of man, which IS;
......a mans NATURAL spirit.
A mind is a vessel of sorts. It thinks, ponders, guesses, figures, logically concludes, decieves.

A body, a mind, a heart, blood, words, thoughts, natural spirit, bones, organs, are all parts of a natural man.

A soul is life from God, that causes the man to become living. That applies to ALL men born of the earth.

A man WHO never is faithful to the Lord <--- His body dies, goes to the grave. His LIVING SOUL goes to hell to wait judgement. Get it. I am speaking of HIS SOUL, not his spirit!

His natural spirit dies, with his natural body, natural mind, natural bones, natural organs. Those things came from the dust and return to the dust.

A mans LIVING SOUL, came from God, and goes to hell to wait for judgement.

AFTER judgement ALL life in the mans body AND soul, returns to God, and the BODY AND SOUL are destroyed.

DESTROYED, kaput, nada, exist no more! And are remembered no more.

They NEVER received the Seed of God, thus they NEVER received a BORN AGAIN SPIRIT.

 

[Happy]

You could not possibly be further from the truth.

This is why I posted reference to the redemption of the body...which will take place for the Church at the Rapture.

The physical body of the born again believer is still in need of resurrection that he/she no longer remain in fallen flesh.

The New Birth is a spiritual resurrection, we await physical resurrection.

Man has a "new spirit" due to the indwelling of God. When you were saved, Happy, your spirit was not exchanged for a new one, it was impacted by the presence of God living in you. You are in Him, He is in you, you have been Baptized with the Holy Ghost by Christ, thus "immersed into God."

Once an earthly body is living, it is maintained by it's blood. Without blood, the BODY died.

The "cause" of an earthly body to BECOME living, it receives A LIVING SOUL.

The BODY IS SUBJECT TO DEATH ~ BECAUSE IT is appointed ONCE to DIE.

The Living Soul that DOES NOT BECOME Saved, shall be destroyed.

The NEW BIRTH is the BIRTH of a mans NATURAL spirit, (from a mans seed), to a SPIRITUAL spirit, from Gods SEED.

THEN can the Spirit of God Dwell within a man.

God is not BORN AGAIN, the spirit of a man is born again!

The BODY of man dies ~ (spiritually, physically or both)
The SOUL of man is SAVED ~
The SPIRIT OF MAN is BORN AGAIN ~
The Lords Spirit thus dwells within the man BECAUSE the man has been PREPARED to have spiritual fellowship and conversation with thee Spirit God!

Created spirits and spirits born of Gods Seed NEVER DIE.

Holy angel spirits and spirits of men born of God SHALL FOREVER be with the Lord.

Fallen angel spirits SHALL FOREVER be separated FROM the Lord, IN THE PIT OF FIRE, burning eternally, without POWER to escape.

 

[Happy]

Your continuing to preach Liberal Philosophy is nauseating.

Job seems to think he was alive in the womb:


Job 3:11
King James Version (KJV)

11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?


So did the Psalmist:


Psalm 139:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.


See the link: in view is protection.

You advocate contrary to God's Own view of the child in the womb. He protects...you destroy.


Ecclesiastes 11:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.


Again, the spirit is referenced, not the "soul."


Isaiah 13:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.


In view is death of people. The fruit of the womb is included.


Isaiah 49:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.


God's purpose for men, at least for several noted in Scripture, is from the womb.


Jeremiah 1:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


We can go on, if you like.


Continue...

Liberal Philosophy ~ LOL ~ What is that Darrell? Don't be shy, I like to know what you are calling me.

 

[Happy]

All men of the earth are living souls.




They also have lungs, kidneys, and immune systems which are the life of their body.






On the contrary, all men receive spirits that will endure eternity.

And that brings us back to the distinction we make between having a spirit and having spiritual life, which is properly having the Life of GOd, which was something not possible for men until the Bread of Heaven came down to give His life, that He might bestow Everlasting Life unto men by immersing them into Himself.

We have everlasting life only by being brought into union with God Himself. That is the reconciliatory process accomplished by Christ.

While the natural man has physical life, and has a spirit, and is a living soul, we know that despite that the natural man is dead.


John 6:51-53
King James Version (KJV)

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.


This statement was made to natural men who did not have life. The only way for them to have life was to believe on Christ's death.


God bless.

You halt on secular understanding.

Men ARE living souls. Men are men. Men are body's. Men are their thoughts. Men are their Word.
If it is of you it is you.

Duh, I know men receive spirits that endure eternity! It's called being BORN AGAIN.
Body's are not born AGAIN!
Soul's are not born AGAIN!
spirit of man IS born AGAIN!

Body's are CHANGED!
Soul's are RESTORED!
spirits are BORN AGAIN!

Do you believe BECAUSE MEN SAW JESUS CRUCIFIED, He had NOT already EXPERIENCED DEATH?

Do you believe BECAUSE MEN SAW JESUS in the LIKENESS as a man, called the Son of God, He had NOT repeatedly BEEN to earth and ministered to men and taught men and given men THE Seed of God?

Do you believe Satan was the FIRST murderer? Who do you think he murdered? And When?

Do you know? I do.

 

[Happy]

And if we replace "soul" with "person" we get the same meaning.

Carnally yes. Spiritually no.

Doctor's "save" body's. They are called people. They have an identifying NAME, which is recorded in hospital medical records.

God "saves" souls. They depart dying body's. They have an identifying NAME, which is recorded in God's book of life.

 

[Happy]

It is the union of God and man in an heavenly, Eternal, and spiritual union...that was lost in Adam, and regained through the Death of Christ.



Incorrect, but, most think that, so you are not alone.

The only thing Adam and Eve received, just as every other person who offered up sacrifice for sins...was a temporary and physical covering which could not cleanse the conscience, and could not take away sins.

Note the Writer of Hebrews' commentary on this point:


Hebrews 10:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


The blood of bulls and calves sanctified to the purifying of the flesh, but, when we are sanctified by the Offering of Christ (which he states happens once, and is done), we are made complete in regards to remission of sins...forever. And that was the promise of God concerning the New Covenant He would establish.

Now note vv.11-12: again the reiteration that those sacrifices could not take away sins, that is why they had to minister on a daily basis. That is contrasted with the Everlasting effect of Christ's Sacrifice.




Great. At least one animal died to temporarily cover their sin. If it had been atonement on an eternal basis...things would have returned to normal in the Garden.



Great. you understand it "spiritually" and continue to make simple and basic errors, and I will simply understand it as God gave it to us.

We have been given insight to the spiritual meanings given in the Old Testament, now all we have to do is keep everything in it's proper context.

And equating animal sacrifice is not keeping Old Testament Provision in its Biblical context. Until you distinguish the difference, you will do what most do, which is lessen the magnitude of the Cross of Christ, and thus you will convey a weak and erroneous Gospel.

And that is all the time I have for today. Please give these issues some prayerful consideration. Don't take my word for it, ask God, He will speak to your...spirit, and your soul will be made joyous.




God bless.

Adam heard the Word of God. Yes.
Did Adam disobey God? Yes.
Did we learn Adam's sin was covered? Yes.
Did we learn not BELIEVING IN God is Sin against God? Yes
Did we learn Adam and Eve did not believe in God? No.
Were Adam and Eve one flesh? Yes.
Did Eve proclaim they had received a child from the Lord? Yes.
Is it reasonable to believe someone proclaims to receive something they do not believe in? No.
Was a particular stock of men established from which the Lord Jesus would be revealed? Yes.
Does that particular stock of men mention men of that line from which the Lord Jesus was revealed? Yes
Does that particular stock of men mention Adam specifically as a son of God? Yes.
Is an unsaved, un-born again man, a son of God? No.

Is ANYTHING about Jesus - His name, His word, His Spirit, the particulars of the human stock line, His works, His body, His soul, the Womb from which He was revealed.....ANYTHING whatsoever....NOT Holy and Pure that pertains to Jesus? No!

Luke.3

1. [38] Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Jesus could NOT be equated with someone who is NOT been restored and accounted as holy.

Again ~ IF you are saved and born again ~ you should learn what that means spiritually ~ and put away your philosophical carnal explanations.