The Sanctity of Life...Body,Spirit, and Soul

[Darrell C]

Ezekiel 36:25
King James Version (KJV)

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

And where is it announced that is your FIRST birth?

Where did I mention anything about a "first birth?"

The issue was specifically that physical birth is not in view.

Life begins at conception, and it is Liberal Philosophy (as it does not warrant a title of Theology) that teaches otherwise. And it is the doctrine of demons that teaches Annihilation, which is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Well... it seems you are well acquainted and an authority of liberal philosophy. Rah for you!

Hey...thanks!

Its not so hard to spot it when you understand the Biblical view.

The fetus is part of the mother's body until the fetus is formED and DELIVERED and SEVERED from the mother.

Irrelevant to whether the child in the womb is an individual that does not share the mother's spirit. Two spirits, two bodies, the dependency, before or after birth...

...is still irrelevant.

The very scriptures in Exodus, teaches you IF a pregnant woman is harmed, the instigator is punished for harming the woman. (NOT the fetus).

Show me where only the mother is distinguished...


Exodus 21:22-25
King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.


The central issue is...her fruit departing from her.

That makes the child...central to the consequences.

If it were just the mother in view, the fruit would not need to be mentioned.

After the fetus is BORN and Then dies, it is life of the instigator FOR THE LIFE of the BORN baby.

Where is that said in the text...


Exodus 21:22-25
King James Version (KJV)

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

You want to believe a fetus in the PROCESS of being formed is existing independently as an individual, so what?

I never said "existing" in a context that the child has no dependency physically on the mother, but that is the problem you are having, you are excluding the spiritual existence of those conceived. And you try to equate Creative formative process with Procreation, in that you argue that a child in the womb is not a "person" until they are physically born.

Utter twaddle.

It isn't.

They are.

Existing as an independent individual in the womb, having both a body (though in the process of growth) and a spirit.

That is why, if the child dies in the womb as a result of the striving...the offender's life is forfeit, despite the mother living.

You aren't going to change that Happy.

It is the mother (according to the law of nature),

Well, I suggest you trade in your Liberal "Laws of Nature" for the Law of God.

that provides all the fetus' needs,

The mother does not provide the spirit of man.

Oxygen does not provide the spirit of man.

Children in the womb are described separately from the mother.


Luke 1:41
King James Version (KJV)

41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.




Jeremiah 1:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


Ecclesiastes 11:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

while God is FORMING the body that WILL be born and be an individual human being.

Argue with God, not me.

Now, what kind of Baptist are you?


God bless.

 

[Happy]

I agree there is only one Book, however, Scripture establishes all men are in it. But, "The Lamb" is specific to salvation, not the general sense of the Book of the Living.

I state my belief ~ and you can disagree. But you stating my belief in your words is corrupt and false.

A) God is the creator. His creations are created and made By His thoughts, His word, His power.
God IS eternal Life. He gives LIFE from Him, imparting Life into the things He creates and
makes. And He departs LIFE, out of the things He creates and makes.

B) God created and made ~ the earth, the water, the sun, the moon, the stars, the trees, the plants,
the animals, mankind, and spirits and souls.

C) Nothing OF God Himself is created or made ~

D) Nothing whatsoever is HID from God ~


1) God formed Adam's Body from dust of the existing earth.
After Adam's Body was formED, God gave Adam's body a LIVING SOUL, which quickened Adam's
body into living.

2) Adam's living body continued living BECAUSE of his BLOOD.

3) Adam's living soul remained IN his living body, as long as Adam's Blood continued flowing and pumping his heart.

4) When Adam's blood stopped flowing, his heart stopped, and his body began dying.

5) When Adam's body began dying, his Living soul departed his dying body.

I believe it is the same for ANY human born OF the dust of the earth.
They are formed IN the womb, and once formED they receive Life from God.
While they are being formED, they are dependent on the mother's blood (not their own); but the mother's blood via the placenta, which nourishes the forming fetus, and discards waste from the formING fetus.

Once the fetus is formED and born and SEVERED from the mother, is when I believe God gives THAT formED and complete individual LIFE FROM God, called a Living soul.

Stop changing what I said to YOUR WORDS. I said NOTHING about a fetus "not being alive". I said the fetus was in the process of formING, and dependent on the mother's blood, (via the placenta).

BLOOD is the life of the created human body. The fetus is in the process of being formed and is receiving its necessary sustaining from the mothers blood, during its forming process.

E) God is ALL KNOWING ~

1) God KNOWS His creations BEFORE they are created and made.
2) God KNOWS who, when, when, how, & why, every one of his creations, will or will not do, when, how,
and why (before) they are created and made.

D) God Established ~

1) God established an ORDER and WAY that His WILL is to be fulfilled.
2) God established laws, rules, requirements, consequences, places, record keeping, how to accomplish,
....names, titles, etc.
3) The same God has established FOR His creations, is the same ORDER and WAY God himself
subjects Himself to.

E) Gods recording keeping ~

1) God does not WAIT to SEE IF or WHAT His creations "WILL or MIGHT" do.
2) Gods RECORDS are HIS BOOKS.
3) Gods RECORDS already reflect WHAT will be revealed to mankind WHEN at Gods pleasure it is
revealed to mankind.
4) Every man ~ born, not yet born, born and died, has his name recorded in Gods records.
5) And every man WHO SHALL stand WITH THE Lord, that mans name remains.
6) And every man WHO SHALL NOT stand WITH THE Lord, that mans name shall have been blotted
out.
7) And regardless IF that man exists on earth, and received a soul made by God, and had life in him
from his blood, and soul with life from God.....that body and soul that reject God, shall be destroyed,
and known no more. And life of that soul, shall return to God.

F) God, thee eternal without beginning or ending ~
Mankind, the create with beginning and ending and new beginning of becoming eternal ~

1) NOTHING whatsoever "OF" God Himself is created ~
2) That which IS the WHOLE of God IS God ~
(His Body, His Soul, His Mind, His Thoughts, His Power, His Spirit, His Word, His Seed,
His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Life, )

3) That which IS God ~ God "absolutely" DOES give (imparts) INTO things He has created and made ~
That which IS God ~ God "absolutely" CAN and DOES (depart) OUT FROM things He has created
and made.

H) Mankind ~

1) Mankind was created ~ to live forever ~ and ~ to inhabit the earth as their estate.
2) The requirement FOR mankind to live forever ~ and inhabit the earth as their estate ~ required that
mankind BE HOLY.
3) Mankind BECAME CORRUPT ~
4) God provided a WAY and ORDER for mankind to BECOME "restored".
5) The "restoration" requires that the "WHOLE" of each man is to be "restored".

6) First man was formED "quickly" then given Life from God.
7) Subsequent mankind is formED "according to the LAW of nature"; formED over 9 months, in the womb
of a woman, then BORN, and given Life from God.

You want to change that ~ and dictate Life from God is given to an incomplete thing in the process of being formED, unborn, fetus; that's you.

I) Born and Born again ~
1) Scripture is clear ~ common knowledge is clear ~ a human is not BORN until it departs the womb.
2) Scripture is clear ~ That thing which departs the womb is a thing FROM the dust, created and made
BY God.
3) Scripture is clear ~ That thing which departs the womb alive ~ SHALL DIE and return to dust from
which it came.

4) Scripture is clear ~ Jesus came from Heaven. God "prepared" His body, in the LIKENESS as a
a human man. He entered Mary's virgin womb. Stayed in her womb 9 months.
Was revealed exiting her womb. Was revealed in the likeness as a man. Was seen as a man. Was
called a man. Was not OF the earth. Was completely Holy. Gave that body and blood for the LIFE
of mankind. TAUGHT BY EXAMPLE "because" simply "hearing" was not "sufficient" for mankind to
to believe, without SEEING and example".

5) Scripture is clear ~ mankinds first birth is exiting the womb, called born.
6) Scripture is clear ~ there is no second birth (born again), without a first birth occurring.

Scripture is Clear. Jesus is the Lord of Lords, the Word of God, God Himself.
Scripture is Clear. Jesus is NOT a human man "OF" the earth.
Scripture is Clear. Jesus is the Christ, God Himself.
Scripture is Clear. God is NOT LIMITED to "appear" in a FASHION of His pleasure.
Scripture is Clear. God is NOT LIMITED to "call Himself" what He determines He shall be called and when.

If you want to MAKE Jesus a HUMAN MAN ~ and preach He is a HUMAN MAN ~ Scripture does not support YOU CHANGING uncreated God INTO the created. I do not agree with that premise.

God DOES NOT change.
Gods Word, who is called JESUS, DOES NOT change.
God DOES NOT become the created.
And the created DOES NOT become God.

 

[Darrell C]

I state my belief ~ and you can disagree. But you stating my belief in your words is corrupt and false.

A) God is the creator. His creations are created and made By His thoughts, His word, His power.
God IS eternal Life. He gives LIFE from Him, imparting Life into the things He creates and
makes. And He departs LIFE, out of the things He creates and makes.

B) God created and made ~ the earth, the water, the sun, the moon, the stars, the trees, the plants,
the animals, mankind, and spirits and souls.

C) Nothing OF God Himself is created or made ~

D) Nothing whatsoever is HID from God ~


1) God formed Adam's Body from dust of the existing earth.
After Adam's Body was formED, God gave Adam's body a LIVING SOUL, which quickened Adam's
body into living.

2) Adam's living body continued living BECAUSE of his BLOOD.

3) Adam's living soul remained IN his living body, as long as Adam's Blood continued flowing and pumping his heart.

4) When Adam's blood stopped flowing, his heart stopped, and his body began dying.

5) When Adam's body began dying, his Living soul departed his dying body.

I believe it is the same for ANY human born OF the dust of the earth.
They are formed IN the womb, and once formED they receive Life from God.
While they are being formED, they are dependent on the mother's blood (not their own); but the mother's blood via the placenta, which nourishes the forming fetus, and discards waste from the formING fetus.

Once the fetus is formED and born and SEVERED from the mother, is when I believe God gives THAT formED and complete individual LIFE FROM God, called a Living soul.

Stop changing what I said to YOUR WORDS. I said NOTHING about a fetus "not being alive". I said the fetus was in the process of formING, and dependent on the mother's blood, (via the placenta).

BLOOD is the life of the created human body. The fetus is in the process of being formed and is receiving it's necessary sustaining during it's forming process via the mother's blood.

E) God is ALL KNOWING ~

1) God KNOWS His creations BEFORE they are created and made.
2) God KNOWS who, when, when, how, & why, every one of his creations, will or will not do, when, how,
and why (before) they are created and made.

D) God Established ~

1) God established an ORDER and WAY that His WILL is to be fulfilled.
2) God established laws, rules, requirements, consequences, places, record keeping, how to accomplish,
....names, titles, etc.
3) The same God has established FOR His creations, is the same ORDER and WAY God himself
subjects Himself to.

E) Gods recording keeping ~

1) God does not WAIT to SEE IF or WHAT His creations "WILL or MIGHT" do.
2) Gods RECORDS are HIS BOOKS.
3) Gods RECORDS already reflect WHAT will be revealed to mankind WHEN at Gods pleasure it is
revealed to mankind.
4) Every man ~ born, not yet born, born and died, has his name recorded in Gods records.
5) And every man WHO SHALL stand WITH THE Lord, that mans name remains.
6) And every man WHO SHALL NOT stand WITH THE Lord, that mans name shall have been blotted
out.
7) And regardless IF that man exists on earth, and received a soul made by God, and had life in him
from his blood, and soul with life from God.....that body and soul that reject God, shall be destroyed,
and known no more. And life of that soul, shall return to God.

F) God, thee eternal without beginning or ending ~
Mankind, the create with beginning and ending and new beginning of becoming eternal ~

1) NOTHING whatsoever "OF" God Himself is created ~
2) That which IS the WHOLE of God IS God ~
(His Body, His Soul, His Mind, His Thoughts, His Power, His Spirit, His Word, His Seed,
His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Life, )

3) That which IS God ~ God "absolutely" DOES give (imparts) INTO things He has created and made ~
That which IS God ~ God "absolutely" CAN and DOES (depart) OUT FROM things He has created
and made.

H) Mankind ~

1) Mankind was created ~ to live forever ~ and ~ to inhabit the earth as their estate.
2) The requirement FOR mankind to live forever ~ and inhabit the earth as their estate ~ required that
mankind BE HOLY.
3) Mankind BECAME CORRUPT ~
4) God provided a WAY and ORDER for mankind to BECOME "restored".
5) The "restoration" requires that the "WHOLE" of each man is to be "restored".

6) First man was formED "quickly" then given Life from God.
7) Subsequent mankind is formED "according to the LAW of nature"; formED over 9 months, in the womb
of a woman, then BORN, and given Life from God.

You want to change that ~ and dictate Life from God is given to an incomplete thing in the process of being formED, unborn, fetus; that's you.

I) Born and Born again ~
1) Scripture is clear ~ common knowledge is clear ~ a human is not BORN until it departs the womb.
2) Scripture is clear ~ That thing which departs the womb is a thing FROM the dust, created and made
BY God.
3) Scripture is clear ~ That thing which departs the womb alive ~ SHALL DIE and return to dust from
which it came.

4) Scripture is clear ~ Jesus came from Heaven. God "prepared" His body, in the LIKENESS as a
a human man. He entered Mary's virgin womb. Stayed in her womb 9 months.
Was revealed exiting her womb. Was revealed in the likeness as a man. Was seen as a man. Was
called a man. Was not OF the earth. Was completely Holy. Gave that body and blood for the LIFE
of mankind. TAUGHT BY EXAMPLE "because" simply "hearing" was not "sufficient" for mankind to
to believe, without SEEING and example".

5) Scripture is clear ~ mankinds first birth is exiting the womb, called born.
6) Scripture is clear ~ there is no second birth (born again), without a first birth occurring.

Scripture is Clear. Jesus is the Lord of Lords, the Word of God, God Himself.
Scripture is Clear. Jesus is NOT a human man "OF" the earth.
Scripture is Clear. Jesus is the Christ, God Himself.
Scripture is Clear. God is NOT LIMITED to "appear" in a FASHION of His pleasure.
Scripture is Clear. God is NOT LIMITED to "call Himself" what He determines He shall be called and when.

If you want to MAKE Jesus a HUMAN MAN ~ and preach He is a HUMAN MAN ~ Scripture does not support YOU CHANGING uncreated God INTO the created. I do not agree with that premise.

God DOES NOT change.
Gods Word, who is called JESUS, DOES NOT change.
God DOES NOT become the created.
And the created DOES NOT become God.

Since all of this has already been addressed, I will stick with one question until answered...

What kind of Baptist are you?


God bless.