The Sinners Ability to CHOOSE

[AustinC]

Ho hum

I take this as your incapacity to see like those in Matthew 23.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I take this as your incapacity to see like those in Matthew 23.

all you have done in this thread, is what you do elsewhere when you comment on my posts, is to misrepresent what I actually write, and make false charges against me! You continue to write your LIES, that I believe in a "works salvation", when I never have done so in my 40 years as a believer in the Lord! You have a theological mind-set that forbids you to see what the Bible says, and when you are presented with passages from the Bible, like in the OP, that you disagree with, you continue to misquote the Bible for your own purposes!

 

[AustinC]

all you have done in this thread, is what you do elsewhere when you comment on my posts, is to misrepresent what I actually write, and make false charges against me! You continue to write your LIES, that I believe in a "works salvation", when I never have done so in my 40 years as a believer in the Lord! You have a theological mind-set that forbids you to see what the Bible says, and when you are presented with passages from the Bible, like in the OP, that you disagree with, you continue to misquote the Bible for your own purposes!

You wrote:

"It is REPENTING and FAITH, that causes NEW BIRTH"

Let us see what actually causes new birth.

John 3:3-5
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

You claim that "repenting and faith causes new birth," but both the passages on new birth show us (and you) that you are dead wrong.

You mimic those of Matthew 23 and then tell us we are wrong.

God is the cause. Repentance and faith is the effect.

Now, stop teaching salvation by works.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You wrote:

"It is REPENTING and FAITH, that causes NEW BIRTH"

Let us see what actually causes new birth.

John 3:3-5
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

You claim that "repenting and faith causes new birth," but both the passages on new birth show us (and you) that you are dead wrong.

You mimic those of Matthew 23 and then tell us we are wrong.

God is the cause. Repentance and faith is the effect.

Now, stop teaching salvation by works.

Neither of the passages you quote say that salvation is not because of repentance and faith. Stop posting nonsense

 

[AustinC]

Neither of the passages you quote say that salvation is not because of repentance and faith. Stop posting nonsense

You are tiresome in your rejection of God as the cause of your faith and repentance.
Passage after passage shows you teach falsely regarding God and His work of grace.

Romans 3:21-30
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 8:28-30
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Hebrews 9:15-17,24-28
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

[SavedByGrace]

D

You are tiresome in your rejection of God as the cause of your faith and repentance.
Passage after passage shows you teach falsely regarding God and His work of grace.

Romans 3:21-30
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
Romans 8:28-30
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Hebrews 9:15-17,24-28
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Dude according to your theology, John Calvin, Charles Hodge, A W Pink, John Murray, etc of Reformed Theologians are wrong. Such is your pride

 

[AustinC]

D


Dude according to your theology, John Calvin, Charles Hodge, A W Pink, John Murray, etc of Reformed Theologians are wrong. Such is your pride

LOL, I quoted scripture and you now tell me that I am claiming these old saints are wrong. Your diversion away from scripture is noted.
Let us stick with God's word, sbg. It is in scripture where your errors are revealed.

 

[SavedByGrace]

LOL, I quoted scripture and you now tell me that I am claiming these old saints are wrong. Your diversion away from scripture is noted.
Let us stick with God's word, sbg. It is in scripture where your errors are revealed.

I have quoted MANY times what the Bible says, which is what these and MANY other Reformed theologians teach, and yet you think that you are right!

 

[SavedByGrace]

LOL, I quoted scripture and you now tell me that I am claiming these old saints are wrong. Your diversion away from scripture is noted.
Let us stick with God's word, sbg. It is in scripture where your errors are revealed.

Jesus Christ and Repentance

 

[Reformed1689]

You are putting the horse before the cart!

Isn't that what you are supposed to do?

 

[Reformed1689]

I have quoted MANY times what the Bible says, which is what these and MANY other Reformed theologians teach, and yet you think that you are right!

You leave a LOT of the Bible out.

7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), 1 Pe 2:7–8.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You leave a LOT of the Bible out.

7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), 1 Pe 2:7–8.

How about showing the OP to be wrong

 

[AustinC]

Jesus Christ and Repentance

sbg, all your verses, out of context, have been answered.
You have been shown the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant and you have been shown how Jesus addressed Israel within the confines of the Mosaic Covenant where Israel did indeed need to repent or face judgment.

I ask you this question: Are we still under the Mosaic Covenant or has Jesus established the New Covenant?

 

[Reformed1689]

How about showing the OP to be wrong

I just did.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Isn't that what you are supposed to do?

Hey, you got me there!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

sbg, all your verses, out of context, have been answered.
You have been shown the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant and you have been shown how Jesus addressed Israel within the confines of the Mosaic Covenant where Israel did indeed need to repent or face judgment.

I ask you this question: Are we still under the Mosaic Covenant or has Jesus established the New Covenant?

Acts chapter 2, verses 37-38, which is the beginning of the NEW COVENANT, Peter tells those who have been convicted by the Holy Spirit through his preaching, and who ask him, "what shall we DO?", to which Peter replies, "REPENT...for the forgiveness of your sins".

WHY are you so stubborn in rejecting this Scripture, which you have done MANY times???

 

[SavedByGrace]

You leave a LOT of the Bible out.

7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), 1 Pe 2:7–8.

it is because they DISOBEYED the Word of God, the Holy Bible, that caused them to stumble! It is you who only quotes the parts that you want to, and ignore what is against your theology!

and HOW does this reply to the OP?

 

[Aaron]

The Sinners Ability to CHOOSE

There are some who pervert the plain teachings of the Holy Bible, in denying that God Created humans with the ability to CHOOSE, either to ACCEPT, or REJECT the Gospel Message for the salvation of their souls. It is argued, that this ABILITY for the sinner to REPENT and BELIEVE, and become BORN AGAIN, is a Gift from God, and limited to the ELECT. This teaching is what the Apostle Paul calls in Galatians, “another gospel, which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ” (1:6,7). Those who suggest that this is the Bible’s teaching, will ignore all passages from the Bible that very clearly show that it is NOT Biblical, and must be rejected as a man-made error, which is held by a few, who suppose they know better than the Lord Himself!

Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, taught very clearly in the Bible, that it is sinful humans, who REJECT the Gospel Message for their salvation, and NOT because God only WILLS that the ELECT, which is few in number, are saved.

In Matthew chapter 23, Jesus speaks some very hard words against the “scribes and Pharisees”, who were perverting the simple Message of the Bible, as some do today. To these Jesus says:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!” (verse 37)

Clearly that Jesus DESIRES that these same people who He is pronouncing Judgement against, would accept salvation for their souls. But they were NOT WILLING! Not only did these have a FREE WILL, but were ABLE to REJECT salvation!

In John chapter 5, Jesus is speaking to the Jews who were trying to murder Him, for claiming EQUALITY with God the Father, and working on the Sabbath Day. He says to these Jews:

“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO COME to Me that you may have life” (verses 39-40)

Like Matthew 23, here we have the Gospel Message for their salvation, being REJECTED by these Jews.

In Matthew chapter 22, we read of the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where those originally INVITED, made excuses, and REJECTED the INVITATION. (verses 1-7). In verses 8-10, we read:

“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests”

Clearly that the OFFER of salvation is an INVITATION for ALL SINNERS, and NOT just the ELECT, as is FALSELY taught by some!

In Acts chapter 7, we read of the great Sermon by Stephen, the first Martyr of the Christian Church, those who were present, were told by Stephen:

“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always RESIST the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you” (verse 51)

Yet some teach that God’s Saving Grace in salvation, is IRRESISTIBLE! Yet another FALSE teaching!

In Acts chapter 13, we have Paul and Barnabas who were trying to share the Gospel with some Jews, of whom we read:

“But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul” (verse 45)

To these same Jews, who were BLASPHEMING and OPPOSED what Paul was saying to them, Paul says,

“Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you REJECT it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (verse 46)

Not only did these Jews REJECT the Gospel, but they CONSIDERED THEMSELVES UNWORTHY OF ETERNAL LIFE, it was NOT God, because they were NON ELECT, Who so considered them!

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul tells us,

“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because THEY DID NOT RECEIVE the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (verses 9-12)

This is what Paul means in Romans 9, “Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens” (verse 18).

It is because sinners REJECT the Gospel Message for their salvation, that God will REJECT them for salvation. To say that God only INTENDS to save SOME, and REJECTS the greater majority, is a LIE! These passages from the Holy Bible, show that this teaching is FALSE.

First of all, I would like to condense this post:

Calvinists are anathema! They're all accursed and going to hell, because they are preaching another gospel.

Now that we have that settled, I'd like to add, woe is me.

But praise you! Praise you for having the merit and the will to make the right choice. You are indeed a better man than I. Now don't slip up and ruin it all. You know how much Christ's work depends upon your ability to maintain it.

Just pass me the whiskey.

 

[SavedByGrace]

First of all, I would like to condense this post:

Calvinists are anathema! They're all accursed and going to hell, because they are preaching another gospel.

Now that we have that settled, I'd like to add, woe is me.

But praise you! Praise you for having the merit and the will to make the right choice. You are indeed a better man than I. Now don't slip up and ruin it all. You know how much Christ's work depends upon your ability to maintain it.

Just pass me the whiskey.

yet again you cannot respond from the Bible to the OP, so you post rubbish!

 

[Aaron]

yet again you cannot respond from the Bible to the OP, so you post rubbish!

What? No whiskey? Besides, others are responding with Scripture. I didn't want to be redundant.

Praise you, for you are worthy, and wise enough to make the right choices. Praise you, for you grew to intelligence, and have the cognitive abilities, the proper mental acuities to discern and receive the things of God.

Isn't it a pity I didn't die in infancy? Then I would be secure! Alas, I'm a full ten years prior to Roe v Wade. A year for every Commandment I've shattered.

Now, about that whiskey...