The Ukrainian Alamo: Another false story

[canadyjd]

Bingo…..

The West wanted to stick MORE weapons right on Russia's border with Ukraine. Putin threatened war unless these actions stopped. The actions continued, so he declared war.

…. Currently the war goal is to demilitarize Ukraine. If that is the outcome of the war then I see that as justifiable…….

Just like Cuban missile crisis? What is your source that the “West wanted to stick more weapons on Russias border”?

There was a treaty signed in the 1990’s between Ukraine, Russia and the US to get rid of their Nukes. Are you claiming we are trying to put Nukes in Ukraine?

What is your source for your statement that “the goal is to demilitarize Ukraine”?

Putin is justified? Why is Putin justified in attempting to “demilitarize” a sovereign country.

Repeating Russian propaganda. Very sad

peace to you

 

[asterisktom]

so?

Of all the rebuttals so far yours has stopped me dead in my tracks. Good thing I was sitting down.

 

[Campion]

Isn't it odd that there is not any real combat footage of engagements between Ukrainian and Russian forces?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Just like Cuban missile crisis? What is your source that the “West wanted to stick more weapons on Russias border”?

The West wanted to induct Ukraine into NATO.

There was a treaty signed in the 1990’s between Ukraine, Russia and the US to get rid of their Nukes. Are you claiming we are trying to put Nukes in Ukraine?

No, I am claiming that NATO is attempting to put First Strike capability along the entire Western border of Russia.

What is your source for your statement that “the goal is to demilitarize Ukraine”?

Quote from linked article:
Russian-speaking journalists echoed Vindman's assessment. "Putin said that he will 'denazify and demilitarize Ukraine' and bring those responsible for 'war crimes' to trial,"

Putin begins military operation in Ukraine

Putin is justified? Why is Putin justified in attempting to “demilitarize” a sovereign country.

Because that Sovereign country is in cahoots with a massive treaty organization whose sole purpose is (currently) to oppose Russia. The nature of the world is that sovereign countries war with each other to advance their own goals. The borders of the world and the countries that exist in them is constantly changing. The fact that Ukraine exists in one moment, doesn't mean it will exist in the next. Destroying a country's sovereignty is not inherently evil depending on the Casus Belli.

I'm sure the Alsace-Lorraine region would be happy to attest to that, or the Mughal Empire, or the Marathas, or Great Britain, or the Iroquois Confederacy or the Cherokee, or Prussia, Lombardy, Venice, Byzantium, Constantinople, Rome, Western Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire, etc.

 

[Revmitchell]

Of all the rebuttals so far yours has stopped me dead in my tracks. Good thing I was sitting down.

Not sure why you believe that was intended to be a rebuttle. Looks like a question to me.

 

[Revmitchell]

Isn't it odd that there is not any real combat footage of engagements between Ukrainian and Russian forces?

Its being posted all over tik tok by citizens of Ukraine

 

[asterisktom]

A ‘player’ I definitely don’t like:

George Soros Speaks Out: US Must Do "Whatever Possible" to Back Ukraine

Not only is he a player, he owns the game and has almost all the pieces. This is not really an East vs West confrontation or Democracy vs Communism. It is Globalism vs. Independent Nationalism.

 

[asterisktom]

Not sure why you believe that was intended to be a rebuttle. Looks like a question to me.

Well, then as a question it was to general. What exactly are you saying So to?

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, then as a question it was to general. What exactly are you saying So to?

Why is that important?

 

[asterisktom]

Tom, I suggest you take a look at the news stories I have posted over the last two days. I have avoided posting stories from American sources. Instead, I amusing German (DW News), Polish (a Polish NGO), and British (TLDR and Forces News). And I don't see the similarity.

My OP was not necessarily directed to you. I got the Alamo idea from another site. Where exactly do you not see the similarity from what I wrote.

I will read the other links of yours that I have not read yet.

 

[asterisktom]

Why is that important?

OK. Nevermind

 

[Campion]

Its being posted all over tik tok by citizens of Ukraine

I don't use Tik Tok so maybe that explains why I haven't seen any footage.

Do you have any links?

 

[canadyjd]

The West wanted to induct Ukraine into NATO.


No, I am claiming that NATO is attempting to put First Strike capability along the entire Western border of Russia.


Quote from linked article:
Russian-speaking journalists echoed Vindman's assessment. "Putin said that he will 'denazify and demilitarize Ukraine' and bring those responsible for 'war crimes' to trial,"

Putin begins military operation in Ukraine


Because that Sovereign country is in cahoots with a massive treaty organization whose sole purpose is (currently) to oppose Russia. The nature of the world is that sovereign countries war with each other to advance their own goals. The borders of the world and the countries that exist in them is constantly changing. The fact that Ukraine exists in one moment, doesn't mean it will exist in the next. Destroying a country's sovereignty is not inherently evil depending on the Casus Belli.

I'm sure the Alsace-Lorraine region would be happy to attest to that, or the Mughal Empire, or the Marathas, or Great Britain, or the Iroquois Confederacy or the Cherokee, or Prussia, Lombardy, Venice, Byzantium, Constantinople, Rome, Western Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire, etc.

You have accurately explained the Russian position. It is full of propaganda and outright falsehoods. Well done.

peace to you

 

[asterisktom]

Bingo. I've been comparing it to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The Commies in the USSR stuck missiles on Cuba right on our border. We threatened war unless they were removed.

One interesting detail that is hardly ever mentioned about the Cuban Missile Crisis is that this move of Khrushchev was not something out of the blue. It was a response to our covertly installing Jupiter IRBMs at Cigli Air Base in Turkey, able to reach both Moscow and Leningrad not to mention nearer cities in the USSR, which was then adjacent to Turkey..

 

[canadyjd]

One interesting detail that is hardly ever mentioned about the Cuban Missile Crisis is that this move of Khrushchev was not something out of the blue. It was a response to our covertly installing Jupiter IRBMs at Cigli Air Base in Turkey, able to reach both Moscow and Leningrad not to mention nearer cities in the USSR, which was then adjacent to Turkey..

Very accurate. Didn’t Kennedy agree to pull back on that effort?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

The West wanted to induct Ukraine into NATO.


No, I am claiming that NATO is attempting to put First Strike capability along the entire Western border of Russia.


Quote from linked article:
Russian-speaking journalists echoed Vindman's assessment. "Putin said that he will 'denazify and demilitarize Ukraine' and bring those responsible for 'war crimes' to trial,"

Putin begins military operation in Ukraine


Because that Sovereign country is in cahoots with a massive treaty organization whose sole purpose is (currently) to oppose Russia. The nature of the world is that sovereign countries war with each other to advance their own goals. The borders of the world and the countries that exist in them is constantly changing. The fact that Ukraine exists in one moment, doesn't mean it will exist in the next. Destroying a country's sovereignty is not inherently evil depending on the Casus Belli.

I'm sure the Alsace-Lorraine region would be happy to attest to that, or the Mughal Empire, or the Marathas, or Great Britain, or the Iroquois Confederacy or the Cherokee, or Prussia, Lombardy, Venice, Byzantium, Constantinople, Rome, Western Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire, etc.

You are accurate that nations rise and fall. It is my sincere hope the NATO sanctions economically destroy Putin and his cronies.

It is my sincere hope the weapons systems being provided by NATO will make a difference, stopping this Russian invasion and delivering Putin a humiliating defeat at the hands of Ukrainian patriots.

Then, perhaps at last, the good Russian people can have the liberty and freedoms that have been denied for over 100 years by the communists.

May the last vestiges of communist oppression, found in Putin and his ilk, forever be removed from Russia, like scrubbing the filth out of a toilet and flushing it away.

Then, a new day will shine in Russia, where there is no need to fear neighboring countries and their weapons.

Who knows, maybe Russia could join NATO. Wouldn’t that be a breakthrough.

peace to you

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

You are accurate that nations rise and fall. It is my sincere hope the NATO sanctions economically destroy Putin and his cronies.

It is my sincere hope the weapons systems being provided by NATO will make a difference, stopping this Russian invasion and delivering Putin a humiliating defeat at the hands of Ukrainian patriots.

Then, perhaps at last, the good Russian people can have the liberty and freedoms that have been denied for over 100 years by the communists.

May the last vestiges of communist oppression, found in Putin and his ilk, forever be removed from Russia, like scrubbing the filth out of a toilet and flushing it away.

Then, a new day will shine in Russia, where there is no need to fear neighboring countries and their weapons.

Who knows, maybe Russia could join NATO. Wouldn’t that be a breakthrough.

peace to you

If Putin was deposed and Russia operated as a Non-George Soros Democracy, joined NATO and Russia + NATO focused on China then I'd be happy as a clam. I almost completely agree with your comment here.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Very accurate. Didn’t Kennedy agree to pull back on that effort?

peace to you

Yes, I think Khrushchev agreed to pull out of Cuba if JFK promised not to invade Cuba. There was also a hush-hush deal to pull out our missiles from Turkey as you mention.

 

[canadyjd]

If Putin was deposed and Russia operated as a Non-George Soros Democracy, joined NATO and Russia + NATO focused on China then I'd be happy as a clam. I almost completely agree with your comment here.

Well, split my wood and start a fire. We agree!

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Yes, I think Khrushchev agreed to pull out of Cuba if JFK promised not to invade Cuba. There was also a hush-hush deal to pull out our missiles from Turkey as you mention.

I think those “hush hush” details weren’t revealed until much later, giving the Pres the appearance of making Khrushchev back down, when it was as really the other way around.

I think we did eventually get Nukes into Turkey. My father-in-law worked at the base. I think he was in the Air Force at that time in the late 60’s.

peace to you