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Featured The Value of Books

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Mar 30, 2022.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Except my "story" has not changed. I have never said that books are bad or that we should not read books.

    I am, however, saying that a Baptist can be faithful to God without having a deficiency in thought without having read books by John Owen.

    By supporting @Iconoclast claim you are adding to Scripture. We do not need to read John Owen in order to think properly. That is just stupid.

    We need to read the Bible. We need to obey Christ's commands.

    While we can gain a lot from reading the ideas and teachings of men God gave to congregations of the past, their words and ideas are not required to resolve any deficiency of thought.

    You two are simply wrong.
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are welcome.

    There is not many ways one can take his claim.

    Read it -

    How can that be misunderstood?????

    What do YOU think that means?

    @Iconoclast is attempting damage control, nothing more.
    Everybody here has seen what he has been posting!!
    When members called attention to it, now his story changes.
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to go against my own better judgment and respond to you.

    The way I understood iconoclast remarks were that people need to read what prior saints have written. As I have said, the errors repeat themselves throughout time. It is rare to find some issue today that hasn’t already been addressed at some time in the past.

    Owen is so will reasoned and thoroughly biblical that any Christian would gain much from reading his works, even when find you disagree with him.

    And “deficiency” is found in thinking you don’t need to understand how the issues have already been addressed by Godly men and women who devoted themselves to understanding scripture and spent their lives in deep thought and fellowship with God.

    BTW, why do you see it as a bad thing that he is seeking to clarify his statement? What he meant, according to his explanation, is not what you claim he meant. Judging from both of your responses (going right past each other) you both believe it’s important to read what others have written.

    What not just shake hands, acknowledge you agree on some things and move on.

    peace to you
     
    #83 canadyjd, Mar 31, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That is exactly what you are doing
    Lol.i said you were doing damage control..4x and now you try and do what I did quoting your posts...nice try.
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Where exactly is this post with which I'm supposed to have agreed? @Iconoclast has written
    With this I firmly agree,
     
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No you're just trying to reword things and change it around and twist it as usual. I did show earlier this morning in a detailed post exactly what you do and I'll do it again later I deleted it by accident trying to add in something that I said the other day that you said wasn't true but I'll do it again later I'll take the time because everyone is noticing exactly what you do now so it's hard for you to hide it when we when I say to you 4 times you're doing damage control and this thread is another attempt at damage control You turn it around to all know hes doing damage to construct a whole trying to cover up the fact that you've been caught and exposed. What you're saying now is not what you said before and if that's before and it's obvious to everyone they read the other post you forget that but I don't I remember you said those things could you said most of them to me or Martin Martin and some of the other Calvinist on this board
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I answered your post this morning that would delete it by accident but I will redo it later on and show exactly what I was saying.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Last week I posted about 20 posts using John c's words and he reacted against them he thought they were stupid and then I pointed out that I'm just using your words that you said to me and I'm saying I'm saying I'm back to you. Now imitation is the best form of flattery so I think John is attempting to do a similar thing trying to use my words that I said to him about damage control and he now is trying to say it's the same thing.lol
     
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    But who decides which saints to read? And if they don't read men like John Owen, Harold Bender, and John Wesley are they really defective in their thinking?
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is silly, @Iconoclast

    My position since (and before) I have been a member here has been that Christians benefit from reading books. But at the same time my position has been that the books we read should not be held to the level of authority you afford them.

    Anybody studying theology should be familiar with the works of Karl Barth (particularly Romans and Church Dogmatics), Calvin's Institutes, Harold Bender, T.F. Torrance, F.F. Bruce, etc. Otherwise their education is defective.

    But not to have read those theologians does not make one defective in thought as a Baptist or a Christian (it just means they are less than qualified in terms of theology).

    My point is that YOU MADE A FALSE ACCUSATION THAT YOU CANNOT BACK UP.

    I never posted that we should refrain from reading books. YOU INVENTED THIS. Such a post, from me EXISTS ONLY IN YOUR MIND.

    The question is whether you are lying. I cannot say. There are conditions that could excuse your false accusations, and you may be blind to the fact you are slandering other people. I consider a lie to be intentional. I do not know your state of mind, your attention span, etc. So I give you the benefit of the doubt and refrain from make ng that charge. I can only deal with the actual words you post and say that what you post is false, and any member who has interacted with me knows it is false.

    You may read books written by saints who have come before us, like John Wesley and Owens. That is not the issue. The issue is considering them an authority.
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    So if an author is old, then not worth ever reading?
     
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    He is an example, just like a Calvin, or a Boyce, or a Gill!
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think we were looking at different parts

    Do you agree or disagree with this statement?



    The comment had absolutely nothing to do with infant baptism. Infant baptism was not even a part of that exchange.

    It was just Iconoclast added later to once again change his story to cover up his error. We have all seen this for years.
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    So true, many would just pick up Institutes and just refuse to attempt to read it at all, as to old, as per JpnC here!
     
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    that what was good theology back then is not any longer today?
     
  16. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Not just him, believe they were saying many older authors!
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Uh...you do realize that I have recommended actually reading John Owen and even Calvin's Institute....correct?

    Why attribute to me things I have never said?

    Do you believe that is how Christians interact with one another?

    Do you believe it is OK to make false accusations against other people? If so, why? If not, why do it?
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    JonC seems to be stating that we cannot read for profit any author not name in the scriptures then?
     
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  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    You stated earlier that Owen and others would not be profitable to read with scriptures, correct?
     
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    We can and should read with discernment the likes of a Sproul or of a Calvin, or a Berkhof, as though some issues did disagree, still much meat to chew on!
     
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