The Wall Came Tumbling Down

[OldRegular]

Revelation 20:2-5

2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

You failed to address the 1000 years that is shown in this passage as requested.

This says "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" so if there has been approximately 1985 years since Pentecost and approximately 1945 years since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. then how can as you "I say in heaven at the present time" the Kingdom referred to here, be in Heaven now since well over 1000 years has passed Jesus Revelation said it would end in 1000 years?

Then you have this too " the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" if as Revelation 20 states the kingdom is a 1000 year kingdom has this resurrection taken place?

No I did not. Read what I wrote again! Pay attention to the highlighted part!

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Simple! Revelation 20 speaks of the Saints, the Church, reigning with Jesus Christ. You say on earth sometime in the future but I say in heaven at the present time. Nevertheless that rules out national/ethnic Israel. Of course your biggest mistake is trying to interpret Revelation literally.

Now you go back and explain the passage from 2 Peter! No one has at present, they just shuffle their feet as they weave and dodge!

I see no question in the Thread on 2 Peter what thread?

"The Apostle Peter on the Second Coming of Our LORD" {http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99468}

 

[revmwc]

Originally Posted by revmwc View Post
He removed the care and custody of the word of God and the spreading of the Gospel Kingdom from them.

Although the N.T. was almost entirely written by Jewish Christians. Luke was a gentile but the rest were believers of Jewish descent.

Your problem is still needing to answer these verses:

Revelation 20:2-5

2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

Clearly this Kingdom and the binding of satan last 1000 years. Since we are currently in 2015 from the death of Christ (edited) would by any calender be over 1000 years.

You need to explain the 1000 years clearly laid out
And who the rest of the dead are with the First resurrection having been completed?

So show how this is not the Kingdom of Christ and that as you say the 70 A.D. marked the event (incorrect and corrected) sorry you say it started at the cross, with this part of these verses:
"they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" there is some type of Kingdom with a 1000 year reign of Christ and a resurrection "they lived" that would be a resurrection. So answer this please!

Revelation 20:2-5

2 "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

You failed to address the 1000 years that is shown in this passage as requested.

This says "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years" so if there has been approximately 1985 years since Pentecost and approximately 1945 years since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. then how can as you "I say in heaven at the present time" the Kingdom referred to here, be in Heaven now since well over 1000 years has passed Jesus Revelation said it would end in 1000 years?

Then you have this too " the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" if as Revelation 20 states the kingdom is a 1000 year kingdom has this resurrection taken place?

No I did not. Read what I wrote again! Pay attention to the highlighted part!

"The Apostle Peter on the Second Coming of Our LORD" {http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=99468}

2nd Peter answered in post #4 "See there you go, you miss the entire point.

Paul says the church meets Christ in the air in both 1st Thessalonians and Corinthians. That would be the Rapture. Peter is describing what we see after the Tribulation and 1000 year reign as clearly seen in Revelation.


Chapter 21 of Revelation. Verse 1 “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

Let’s go to Peter and see what he had to say about this new heaven and new earth. 2nd Peter 3: 10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”
1. Peter says this earth which we live on will melt with fervent heat.
2. All the human works will be burned up.
3. He states “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved.”
4. Since all will be dissolved that man has worked for, Peter exhorts us with this question.
5. “What manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness?”

All of this is backed up with O.T. Prophecy,

Fulfillment of Old Testament scripture, Isaiah 65: 16 “That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.” Coupled with Isaiah 66: 21 “And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.”

Peter is indeed speaking of the second coming which will take place a the end of the Tribulation seen in Revelation 19 and then following the 1000 reign as laid out in Revelation 20 we see the New Heaven and the New Earth, Jesus makes it perfectly clear in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just read the book of Revelation. "

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2217634&postcount=4

Now back to my question, Then you have this too " the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" if as Revelation 20 states the kingdom is a 1000 year kingdom has this resurrection taken place?

Explain the 1000 years which is definitely shown in Revelation 20? Because if as you say "The Wall was broken by Jesus Christ through HIS sacrificial death on the Roman Cross. But sadly there are those who would rebuild that wall from the rubble of "splintered" Scripture; that wall whose destruction was accomplished on the Cross." An answer to what it is and when it occurs Please. This year 2015 would place us approximately 1985 years since Christ death on the Cross. Revelation 20 states the kingdom is a 1000 year[/COLOR] kingdom, Explain the 1000 years which is definitely shown in Revelation 20? When it began and when the rest of the dead will rise? So answer this please!

 

[Darrell C]

Jesus Christ broke down the wall on the Cross as Paul clearly teaches. If you can't understand that then you are not nearly as clever as you think!!

It's not a matter of being clever, it is a matter that you post something that shows...revelation is progressive, and that thee are different Economies in Scripture:

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation. In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

If the Middle Wall of Partition was not torn down in the Old Testament, and God revealed this through Paul, who makes it clear this wall was torn down through Christ, and not before...

...you have defeated the intent of your OP.

Nothing clever, just basic Bible Truth.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

It's not a matter of being clever, it is a matter that you post something that shows...revelation is progressive, and that thee are different Economies in Scripture:





If the Middle Wall of Partition was not torn down in the Old Testament, and God revealed this through Paul, who makes it clear this wall was torn down through Christ, and not before...

...you have defeated the intent of your OP.

Nothing clever, just basic Bible Truth.


God bless.

Nothing you say makes any sense. See if you can respond to the OP including the last statement!

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation. In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The Apostle further tells us that we Gentiles are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. That Building is the Church, the total number of those redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ, and is composed of believing Jew and believing Gentiles an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In Revelations 21:1-4 we read the words of the beloved Apostle John And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We see in this passage the New Jerusalem, the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ, coming to the New Heavens and New Earth where GOD will dwell with them. This is perfectly consistent with what we read in Ephesians 2:22.

The Wall was broken by Jesus Christ through HIS sacrificial death on the Roman Cross. But sadly there are those who would rebuild that wall from the rubble of "splintered" Scripture; that wall whose destruction was accomplished on the Cross.

 

[Darrell C]

Nothing you say makes any sense. See if you can respond to the OP including the last statement!

I responded to the OP, and you say what I say doesn't make sense.

Here it is again:

Originally Posted by OldRegular View Post
Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation. In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

So show this breaking down of this wall in the Old Testament.

Then you will have disproved the progressive nature of both revelation (not the Book) and the Redemptive Plan of God.


God bless.

It's really very simple, you are trying to deny dispensations when you have to include them in your OP.

Here it is in case you need a little help:

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation.

So show the Lord manifesting in the flesh He died in...in the Old Testament.

Show the revealed Gospel of Jesus Christ, which in many places is shown to ne a Mystery not revealed in the previous Ages...and then you will have proved your point.

In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

And since it was hidden wisdom, not revealed in those Ages preceding Paul's, which is the Church Age...revelation is clearly progressive.

Understand yet?

That is the response to the OP. The OP is dismantled, and you are found to be in conflict with Scripture, which is clearly progressive, and clearly shows dispensations:


Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

For those with difficulty this thread is about the wall between Jew and Gentile that Jesus Christ destroyed by HIS death on the cross and the pre-trib-dispensational claim that that wall will be rebuilt!

 

[revmwc]

For those with difficulty this thread is about the wall between Jew and Gentile that Jesus Christ destroyed by HIS death on the cross and the pre-trib-dispensational claim that that wall will be rebuilt!

Except the middle wall of partition which Jesus tore was a literal wall torn.

We see it torn in Matthew 27:51 "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"

Meaning that we as Believer Priest in this age whether Jew or Gentile can now represent ourselves before God. We can go straight to God and confess our sins. See 1st John 1:9.

The middle wall of partition the wall that came tumbling down did so literally when Christ died on the cross. The only person who could pass that wall in the Tabernacle and Temple according to the Laws of Israel was the Priest who would take the blood to the mercy set. Christ blood paid for sin and now we can confess our sins to God without a priest.

 

[OldRegular]

Except the middle wall of partition which Jesus tore was a literal wall torn.

We see it torn in Matthew 27:51 "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"

Meaning that we as Believer Priest in this age whether Jew or Gentile can now represent ourselves before God. We can go straight to God and confess our sins. See 1st John 1:9.

The middle wall of partition the wall that came tumbling down did so literally when Christ died on the cross. The only person who could pass that wall in the Tabernacle and Temple according to the Laws of Israel was the Priest who would take the blood to the mercy set. Christ blood paid for sin and now we can confess our sins to God without a priest.

The OP is not about the curtain in the Temple. Read the OP:

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation. In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The Apostle further tells us that we Gentiles are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. That Building is the Church, the total number of those redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ, and is composed of believing Jew and believing Gentiles an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In Revelations 21:1-4 we read the words of the beloved Apostle John And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We see in this passage the New Jerusalem, the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ, coming to the New Heavens and New Earth where GOD will dwell with them. This is perfectly consistent with what we read in Ephesians 2:22.

The Wall was broken by Jesus Christ through HIS sacrificial death on the Roman Cross. But sadly there are those who would rebuild that wall from the rubble of "splintered" Scripture; that wall whose destruction was accomplished on the Cross.

 

[Darrell C]

For those with difficulty this thread is about the wall between Jew and Gentile that Jesus Christ destroyed by HIS death on the cross and the pre-trib-dispensational claim that that wall will be rebuilt!

And I have addressed the OP, at least part of it, and we can't seem to progress beyond that.

When did the Wall come down?


God bless.

 

[revmwc]

The OP is not about the curtain in the Temple. Read the OP:

But the verse you use for the middle wall of partition is because that is what Paul refers too here. We now represent ourselves to God. The Old Testament believers offered sacrifices. The Jews were required to take the sacrifice to God and that middle wall of Partition the veil was torn from top to bottom torndown because of the work of Christ on the cross.

"hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us"

Then notice this 18. "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"

That is exactly what happened when the veil was torn we gained access to the Father ourselves no priest is needed. Jesus blood now removed the need to offer sacrifice and we confess our sins to the Father because we have the Spirit indwelling us. It simple if you don't try to complete it by trying to refute some other doctrine with it.

 

[Darrell C]

And I have addressed the OP, at least part of it, and we can't seem to progress beyond that.

When did the Wall come down?


God bless.

Waiting...


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Waiting...

:type::type:

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Many if not most pre-trib-dispensationalists claim to believe in progressive revelation. In the above passage of Scripture GOD through the Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ has broken down that wall between Jew and Gentile that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The Apostle further tells us that we Gentiles are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. That Building is the Church, the total number of those redeemed by the Blood of Jesus Christ, and is composed of believing Jew and believing Gentiles an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In Revelations 21:1-4 we read the words of the beloved Apostle John And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We see in this passage the New Jerusalem, the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ, coming to the New Heavens and New Earth where GOD will dwell with them. This is perfectly consistent with what we read in Ephesians 2:22.

The Wall was broken by Jesus Christ through HIS sacrificial death on the Roman Cross. But sadly there are those who would rebuild that wall from the rubble of "splintered" Scripture; that wall whose destruction was accomplished on the Cross.

 

[Darrell C]

And I have addressed the OP, at least part of it, and we can't seem to progress beyond that.

When did the Wall come down?


God bless.

Not sure how that is supposed to represent an answer.

Just when exactly did that wall come down?

Would we say it has always been down, spiritually? Or does Scripture indicate that there was a point in time when something that had not happened before was going to happen, and then the time came when it did happen?

Not to be a pest, but that is just one point in the OP I think we need to address first.

Okay, maybe there is just a little bit of me that wants to pester you about it, but it's meant with good intentions, I assure you.

God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Not sure how that is supposed to represent an answer.

Just when exactly did that wall come down?

Would we say it has always been down, spiritually? Or does Scripture indicate that there was a point in time when something that had not happened before was going to happen, and then the time came when it did happen?

Not to be a pest, but that is just one point in the OP I think we need to address first.

Okay, maybe there is just a little bit of me that wants to pester you about it, but it's meant with good intentions, I assure you.

If you cannot understand the OP which I reposted for you then you really are hopeless! Hint

 

[revmwc]

And I have addressed the OP, at least part of it, and we can't seem to progress beyond that.

When did the Wall come down?


God bless.

Try this the middle wall of partition is because that is what Paul refers too here. We now represent ourselves to God. The Old Testament believers offered sacrifices. The Jews were required to take the sacrifice to God and that middle wall of Partition the veil was torn from top to bottom torndown because of the work of Christ on the cross.

"hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us"

Then notice this 18. "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"

That is exactly what happened when the veil was torn we gained access to the Father ourselves no priest is needed. Jesus blood now removed the need to offer sacrifice and we confess our sins to the Father because we have the Spirit indwelling us. It simple if you don't try to complete it by trying to refute some other doctrine with it.

The gentiles by the Law were to stay in the outer court of the Temple, the Jews couldn't enter the Holy of Holies only the priest could. See this
Ephesians 2:

13. "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Jesus broke the middle wall of partition. What is this wall?
Well we see in Matthew 27:50-52. this
50 "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"

What does this show us? That instead of having a priest represent us to God we as believer priest are able to represent ourselves before God. We can now confess our sins to Him and no longer need to offer a blood sacrifice. So the middle wall of petition has been broken down that is, the veil was reant top to bottom, God rent it not mankind.

 

[Darrell C]

Try this the middle wall of partition is because that is what Paul refers too here. We now represent ourselves to God. The Old Testament believers offered sacrifices. The Jews were required to take the sacrifice to God and that middle wall of Partition the veil was torn from top to bottom torndown because of the work of Christ on the cross.

"hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us"

Then notice this 18. "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"

That is exactly what happened when the veil was torn we gained access to the Father ourselves no priest is needed. Jesus blood now removed the need to offer sacrifice and we confess our sins to the Father because we have the Spirit indwelling us. It simple if you don't try to complete it by trying to refute some other doctrine with it.

The gentiles by the Law were to stay in the outer court of the Temple, the Jews couldn't enter the Holy of Holies only the priest could. See this
Ephesians 2:

13. "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Jesus broke the middle wall of partition. What is this wall?
Well we see in Matthew 27:50-52. this
50 "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"

What does this show us? That instead of having a priest represent us to God we as believer priest are able to represent ourselves before God. We can now confess our sins to Him and no longer need to offer a blood sacrifice. So the middle wall of petition has been broken down that is, the veil was reant top to bottom, God rent it not mankind.

While I appreciate it, my friend, the question posed to OR has an intent. He builds upon the derision he offers towards Dispensationalists, and overlooks that he presents two different dispensations while he is trying to defeat his enemy...dispensationalists, lol.

I did not ask what the Wall being torn down means, most of us understand that, what I asked was when it came down.

His refusal to answer shows he at least to some extent sees the weakness of his OP.

That is what I would suggest you concentrate on when you debate him, because much of the presentation you give him will be ignored. Find that central point and stick to it. What you will see, if you do that, is he will abandon that thread because it becomes a goad to him.

In Post# 5 I ask him to show the tearing down of the wall in the Old Testament.

And we both know, he can't do that. And we both know, at least should, that this is what has to be dealt with, his refusal to deal with things we know contradict his position. If he will do that, then the constant circle he runs in on the same issues might just become a straight line.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Try this the middle wall of partition is because that is what Paul refers too here. We now represent ourselves to God. The Old Testament believers offered sacrifices. The Jews were required to take the sacrifice to God and that middle wall of Partition the veil was torn from top to bottom torndown because of the work of Christ on the cross.

"hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us"

Then notice this 18. "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"

That is exactly what happened when the veil was torn we gained access to the Father ourselves no priest is needed. Jesus blood now removed the need to offer sacrifice and we confess our sins to the Father because we have the Spirit indwelling us. It simple if you don't try to complete it by trying to refute some other doctrine with it.

The gentiles by the Law were to stay in the outer court of the Temple, the Jews couldn't enter the Holy of Holies only the priest could. See this
Ephesians 2:

13. "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

Jesus broke the middle wall of partition. What is this wall?
Well we see in Matthew 27:50-52. this
50 "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"

What does this show us? That instead of having a priest represent us to God we as believer priest are able to represent ourselves before God. We can now confess our sins to Him and no longer need to offer a blood sacrifice. So the middle wall of petition has been broken down that is, the veil was reant top to bottom, God rent it not mankind.

Reasonably said but you need to go further with what Paul teaches:

Ephesians 2:15-22
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

There is one building for a habitation of GOD through the Church and that does not change.

 

[OldRegular]

While I appreciate it, my friend, the question posed to OR has an intent. He builds upon the derision he offers towards Dispensationalists, and overlooks that he presents two different dispensations while he is trying to defeat his enemy...dispensationalists, lol.

I did not ask what the Wall being torn down means, most of us understand that, what I asked was when it came down.

His refusal to answer shows he at least to some extent sees the weakness of his OP.

That is what I would suggest you concentrate on when you debate him, because much of the presentation you give him will be ignored. Find that central point and stick to it. What you will see, if you do that, is he will abandon that thread because it becomes a goad to him.

In Post# 5 I ask him to show the tearing down of the wall in the Old Testament.

And we both know, he can't do that. And we both know, at least should, that this is what has to be dealt with, his refusal to deal with things we know contradict his position. If he will do that, then the constant circle he runs in on the same issues might just become a straight line.


God bless.

Truth is you are too clever for your own good. The OP tells when the wall was broken. revmwc understands when it was broken. You are so impressed with your own ego that you refuse to understand anything that does not stroke your ego.

 

[revmwc]

Reasonably said but you need to go further with what Paul teaches:

Ephesians 2:15-22
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

There is one building for a habitation of GOD through the Church and that does not change.

15. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

In this new period of time God through Jesus has removed the enmity, what enmity, the enmity of sin. Sin is not the issue today, sin has been totally paid for forever. Christ became the propitiation for the sins of all mankind. The issue is no believe on Him or reject Him. The issue was really the same for all the O.T. believers but they looked forward to His coming, we look back at the one who has come.
Jew and Gentile alike were believers in the O.T. and Jew and Gentile alike can be believers in this period. What changed, the need to offer a sacrifice.

16. "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"

He reconciled both O.T. and N.T. believers with His death. Those who looked forward and believed a savior would come. Have been reconciled to God by the Blood of christ.

Those who look back in believing on Him that on the Savior who has come are also reconciled to God. Both O.T. and N.T. believers have been reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ.

17. "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

Here again the renting of the veil in the Temple showed we have access by one Spirit unto the Father. The veil rent was the middle partition in the Temple.

19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

We all O.T. and new Testament believers are firmly fitted into God's plan of salvation. Theirs upon the foundation of the prophets ours upon the foundation of the Apostles. It all becomes a Holy Temple for Christ. We as believers in this age are the Habitation of the Holy Spirt.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

These say the same thing as Ephesians 2:22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Just phrased a little differently.

So Paul is speaking of the renting of the Veil in the Temple here in Ephesians 2.

 

[OldRegular]

15. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

In this new period of time God through Jesus has removed the enmity, what enmity, the enmity of sin. Sin is not the issue today, sin has been totally paid for forever. Christ became the propitiation for the sins of all mankind. The issue is no believe on Him or reject Him. The issue was really the same for all the O.T. believers but they looked forward to His coming, we look back at the one who has come.
Jew and Gentile alike were believers in the O.T. and Jew and Gentile alike can be believers in this period. What changed, the need to offer a sacrifice.

16. "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"

He reconciled both O.T. and N.T. believers with His death. Those who looked forward and believed a savior would come. Have been reconciled to God by the Blood of christ.

Those who look back in believing on Him that on the Savior who has come are also reconciled to God. Both O.T. and N.T. believers have been reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ.

17. "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

Here again the renting of the veil in the Temple showed we have access by one Spirit unto the Father. The veil rent was the middle partition in the Temple.

19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

We all O.T. and new Testament believers are firmly fitted into God's plan of salvation. Theirs upon the foundation of the prophets ours upon the foundation of the Apostles. It all becomes a Holy Temple for Christ. We as believers in this age are the Habitation of the Holy Spirt.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

These say the same thing as Ephesians 2:22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Just phrased a little differently.

So Paul is speaking of the renting of the Veil in the Temple here in Ephesians 2.

We as believers are the habitation of the Holy Spirit. But Paul in Verses 21, 22 goes beyond the individual believer to the body of believers. That body is elsewhere by both the Apostles Paul and John called the Bride of Jesus Christ and by the Apostle John the New Jerusalem.