Actually Martin I did not say that every verb in Rom 19:13 { I think you meant Rom 10:13} is Passive. Point of fact what I was talking about free will in the text.
As here
>>Austin if you cannot see man has a free will in the text of Rom 10:13-15 then you are just willfully blind. You have lost yourself in your calvinist theology.
The
active voice represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action.
The
middle voice indicates the subject performing an action upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit.
The
passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action.
Do you know which voice is missing in this text? The passive and why is that? Well if your not sure it is because the individual is the one doing the action. They hear the gospel, they believe the gospel, they call on the lord. That whether you like it or not is man exercising their God given free will. << from post # 102
Martin you say I should not try to be silly. I could say you shouldn’t ignore what you theology requires. Your the one that keeps saying you have to be regenerated before you can have faith.
And then ignore what that means
Regeneration G3824
new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration Thayer
Born G1080
Again G509
from above, from a higher place Thayer
Your own words betray you Martin
>> No one can be saved without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, just as no one can be saved without being born from above.<<
Martin you say you have to believe/have faith in Christ Jesus before you are saved, agreed.
You further state that saved means one is born from above, agreed again.
But then your calvinism says that you have to be regenerated before you can believe? And actually that God has to give you the faith so you can believe and all this happens after you are saved. Now are you now going to say that regeneration/new birth does not mean born from above.
So we either have someone saved because they believe, biblical or we have someone saved so they can be given faith to believe, calvinism.
Martin you have said that is not what regeneration means to you so I have to conclude that you have a private meaning for the word that differs from the biblical one. If so which do you think is correct? The bible or you.
Not sure what point you were trying to make with this.
>>There are texts that attribute salvation to faith without speaking of rebirth (e.g. Acts of the Apostles16:31). There are texts that attribute salvation to regeneration without speaking of faith (e.g.
Titus 3:4-6). << Do you think all the words have to be used together to make them valid?
You did see the part where it says that Lydia 1} “worshiped God”, she knew the God of creation and yes God open her heart but why 2} “to heed the things spoken by Paul”.
So this fits right in with what I have pointed out a number of times.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
Hearing → Believing → Calling → Salvation
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
>>Once again, you simply don't understand. I know of no orthodox Calvinist who suggests that people are saved so that they may believe.
They are regenerated so that they may believe and be saved by grace through faith (
Ephesians 2:8). <<
Your words above Martin, but that is not what the bible says that is only what your Calvinism requires.
And lest you think I am just charging you with a false accusation here is another definition form:
The Complete Word Study Dictionary by Spiros Zodhiates
G3824
παλιγγενεσία
paliggenesía; gen. paliggenesías, fem. noun from pálin (G3825), again, and génesis (G1078), generation, nation. Regeneration, restoration, renovation, rebirth.
Eph_2:8-9
Salvation results from two things: grace and faith. So what is the role that each plays? The answer is found in the prepositions “by” and “through.”
Who saves us? God saves us. How, by his grace. So what, then, is the role of faith? The key preposition for faith G4102 is “through," G1223 which refers to the means or instrumentality by which we are saved {because of, for this reason}.
We are saved by God’s grace (grace is the ground and agency of our salvation) through faith, which is the reason we receive the gift of salvation. Our faith is viewed as that way by which God’s gracious gift of salvation is received — because of our faith.
We hear the gospel, we believe the gospel, we place our faith in Christ Jesus, God saves us.
Martin I do hope this will help you come to a better understanding of the way and means of salvation[/QUOTE]What I see is you distorting the gospel into a grotesque human work. What you teach, Paul would condemn to your face.
