The Work of the Holy Spirit

[awaken]

The it seems to be quite a useless experience. What is the point of it.

Are you asking what the point of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is?

Is there a command to be baptized of the Holy Spirit.
There is a command to filled of the Holy Spirit (Eph.5:18), and it does bear fruit, more fruit then you will ever see in your life.

How are you able to judge my fruit? Yes! I do believe there is a command to be filled! But we are also told what to do to receive the Holy Spirit! ASK!!!

At the beginning of chapter three Peter, being filled with the Holy Spirit, healed a lame man who had been lame from his mother's birth.
The result:
Acts 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
Five thousand were saved. That is two thousand more than on the day of Pentecost!

Your point?

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
--Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit and that gave him power to speak the Word of God before the Sanhedrin, the very ones that had orchestrated the crucifixion of Christ.

Again, your point?

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
--The disciples prayed, the miraculous took place (an earthquake); and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. The result? It wasn't tongues; but rather they spoke the Word with boldness.

I believe we can be filled several times! I have never said that the filling was related to tongues! I said the baptism in the Holy Spirit examples in scriptures all show speaking in tongues!

And what about the first martyr, Stephen:
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Being full of the Holy Spirit, he preached again to those that had crucified Christ, and paid for it with his life. He preached with boldness and died with forgiveness.

These are examples of being filled with the Holy Spirit. But you can't find such examples of being baptized with the Holy Spirit, can you.
And as for your lame excuse about ministry, every believer is called to ministry! No person is excepted. Every person is a disciple of Christ. If you think you are excepted then perhaps you are not saved.

Are you questioning my salvation? On what basis? Because I do not believe the same as you?

 

[DHK]

This is all assumption that can not be proven by scriptures! More than just the apostles spoke in tongues in the Bible! Why would they be left out here?

I give you Biblical proof and you tell me it is an assumption. I believe the Bible over your opinion. You have nothing to offer.

So is the cross! Never to be repeated again! But the promise is for all that believe! We can still be saved today! We can still be empowered by the Holy Spirit today!

The cross is efficacious to all that believe. It has permanent results. Pentecost doesn't. If it did, you would see cloven tongues of fire and a sound like as mighty rushing wind every time you spoke in tongues, and your speaking in tongues would be real; you would know the language. It would not be the fake gibberish you speak.

How many times does common sense have to be explained to you?
Can people be healed outside the church? Can a word of knowledge or wisdom be given outside the church? Can faith be operated outside the church? Were miracles done outside the church? Can someone prophesy outside the church? Can someone pray in the spirit outside the church? YES!!!!

No, God uses the local church as his God-ordained institution for this day and age. Go to James chapter five and read about how the sick should be healed. God uses the local church and the pastors of the local church. He tells how it should be done in that chapter, or don't you believe the Bible any more.
"Words of wisdom" is a revelatory gift. It has ceased. We have God's revelation. The same goes for "word of knowledge." If you want knowledge go to God's word. All the knowledge you will ever need is contained in the Bible. The gift of miracles has ceased. Show me a person with this gift. You can't. The gift of prophecy has ceased. You can't show me a person who has this gift either, unless they are involved in the occult. Satan performs miracles also.
Go to Acts chapter 12. These gifts (now ceased) were all given to the local church. Why such unbelief in the Bible? I have never seen such a greater degree of unbelief displayed in a person such as yourself. Why don't you believe the plain teaching of the twelfth chapter of 1Corinthians?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)

Peter and John were not sent to Samaria until the apostles heard that the Samaritans had received salvation by believing the Gospel message which Philip had preached. When Peter and John arrived, they laid hands on the Samaritans and then the Holy Spirit came on the Samaritans. Therefore, some amount of time passed between the moment the Samaritans were saved and the moment they "received" the Holy Spirit. This brings up an interesting question. Most Christian denominations teach that everyone automatically receives the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation, so why does it appear as if the Samaritans did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they received salvation? There is a very simple answer to this question, and this answer is clear as we gain a better understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This passage says that the Holy Spirit had not yet "come upon" any of the Samaritans. Notice that this is the same wording which is used to describe the baptism of the Holy Spirit in all of the examples.

These examples provide further confirmation that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not refer to being sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. Instead, it refers to a separate event after salvation which is for empowering a Christian to function supernaturally in the body of Christ.


I was shown your interpretation of those scriptures that contradict other scriptures concerning this! I do believe that salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit can happen at the same time! But scriptures also show they are separate! Salvation only happens once in a persons life and so does the baptism! Being filled happens more than once!


You also left out Acts 19 where the Spirit came UPON them!

You also have yet to prove what they were doing in Acts when they were speaking in tongues. It never mentions Paul receiving tongues...but we know he did!


I appreciate your genuine concern for my well being! But that said...

Those scripture do not refute but prove what I believe! So you ignore scripture presented to you! 1 Cor. is plain that speaking in tongues is speaking to God/praying in the spirit/ blessing with the spirit...you ignore all of this to prove your theory!
So again...we just do not agee on the Holy Spirit upon and Holy Spirit within! I believe it can happen at once...but it also happens separate as scriptures show!

In each of the three instances where the HS baptism was delayed -- THE ONLY THREE INSTANCES IN THE ENTIRE NT -- I have explained over and over the why of each case. These are exceptional circumstances, not normative for every believer! Why can't you get that through your thick skull!? Samaria was the FIRST TIME the Gospel was received by non-Jews; the HS baptism was delayed until the apostles could be firsthand witnesses that the Gospel was for the hated Samaritans. In Acts 19, as I have told you many times, these were not Christian disciples! They were merely John's disciples. The HS baptism was not given them until they accepted Jesus and were baptized in His name, at which time they were HS baptized. In the case of Cornelius, the HS baptism was delayed until Peter could witness firsthand that the Gospel was for Gentiles as well as Jews. You can't seem to get it through your thick skull that these three instances were for the specific purposes that I have stated. They were first-time, one-time only situations that could not be repeated. There was only one first time that the Samaritans first received the Gospel; there was only one time that the Gentiles FIRST received the Gospel. As I have said over and over, these are the three exceptional circumstances and the only three in all the NT where the HS baptism was delayed, and there were specific reasons for each time. This was confined to these three unique situations; this was NOT normative for all believers because the unique situations did not apply and never again applied to all believers! Why can't you get that?! I know why. You simply ignore this context because it destroys your views and your experience. But those are the facts; that is what the scriptures are saying taken in the context of the unique and unrepeatable circumstances. Deny all you want, but that is the irrefutable truth, not theory. You have swallowed the teachings of occult-inspired false prophets.

 

[awaken]

I give you Biblical proof and you tell me it is an assumption. I believe the Bible over your opinion. You have nothing to offer.

I have no idea what your point was when you said it was a usless experience????

The cross is efficacious to all that believe. It has permanent results. Pentecost doesn't. If it did, you would see cloven tongues of fire and a sound like as mighty rushing wind every time you spoke in tongues, and your speaking in tongues would be real; you would know the language. It would not be the fake gibberish you speak.

Your opinion is noted!

No, God uses the local church as his God-ordained institution for this day and age. Go to James chapter five and read about how the sick should be healed. God uses the local church and the pastors of the local church. He tells how it should be done in that chapter, or don't you believe the Bible any more.
"Words of wisdom" is a revelatory gift. It has ceased. We have God's revelation. The same goes for "word of knowledge." If you want knowledge go to God's word. All the knowledge you will ever need is contained in the Bible. The gift of miracles has ceased. Show me a person with this gift. You can't. The gift of prophecy has ceased. You can't show me a person who has this gift either, unless they are involved in the occult. Satan performs miracles also.
Go to Acts chapter 12. These gifts (now ceased) were all given to the local church. Why such unbelief in the Bible? I have never seen such a greater degree of unbelief displayed in a person such as yourself. Why don't you believe the plain teaching of the twelfth chapter of 1Corinthians?

You avoided the question in context of what you posted! You said tongues (even if you do not believe they are for today) was given to the church to be done in the church! I ask you why Just tongues? Why did you limit just tongues? Do you limit the other 8 manifestations of the Holy Spirit to JUST in the church!

 

[awaken]

In each of the three instances where the HS baptism was delayed -- THE ONLY THREE INSTANCES IN THE ENTIRE NT -- I have explained over and over the why of each case. These are exceptional circumstances, not normative for every believer! Why can't you get that through your thick skull!? Samaria was the FIRST TIME the Gospel was received by non-Jews; the HS baptism was delayed until the apostles could be firsthand witnesses that the Gospel was for the hated Samaritans. In Acts 19, as I have told you many times, these were not Christian disciples! They were merely John's disciples. The HS baptism was not given them until they accepted Jesus and were baptized in His name, at which time they were HS baptized. In the case of Cornelius, the HS baptism was delayed until Peter could witness firsthand that the Gospel was for Gentiles as well as Jews. You can't seem to get it through your thick skull that these three instances were for the specific purposes that I have stated. They were first-time, one-time only situations that could not be repeated. There was only one first time that the Samaritans first received the Gospel; there was only one time that the Gentiles FIRST received the Gospel. As I have said over and over, these are the three exceptional circumstances and the only three in all the NT where the HS baptism was delayed, and there were specific reasons for each time. This was confined to these three unique situations; this was NOT normative for all believers because the unique situations did not apply and never again applied to all believers! Why can't you get that?! I know why. You simply ignore this context because it destroys your views and your experience. But those are the facts; that is what the scriptures are saying taken in the context of the unique and unrepeatable circumstances. Deny all you want, but that is the irrefutable truth, not theory. You have swallowed the teachings of occult-inspired false prophets.

You can not prove your assumption in scripture! You are the one that has to believe it was only done because it was a first time for those certain people!
No where in scriptures does it come back and say.." Ok, that was a one time for those...we are going to do it different for you!"
THose were examples of how one is baptized in the Holy Spirit, period! It is plain in Acts 8 that they were saved and baptized...are you saying now that they did not recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit? If you will read close the term used when they laid hands on them were SPIRIT UPON! Just like in Acts 1:8 it says you will be baptized when the Spirit comes UPON you!

 

[Yeshua1]

You can not prove your assumption in scripture! You are the one that has to believe it was only done because it was a first time for those certain people!
No where in scriptures does it come back and say.." Ok, that was a one time for those...we are going to do it different for you!"
THose were examples of how one is baptized in the Holy Spirit, period! It is plain in Acts 8 that they were saved and baptized...are you saying now that they did not recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit? If you will read close the term used when they laid hands on them were SPIRIT UPON! Just like in Acts 1:8 it says you will be baptized when the Spirit comes UPON you!

WHAT verse tells us to seek the Baptism after saved?

what difference between being baptized in HG, and to be filled up with Him?

 

[awaken]

WHAT verse tells us to seek the Baptism after saved?

I did not say seek...I said ask!
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

what difference between being baptized in HG, and to be filled up with Him?

Do you believe we can be baptized more than once in the HOly Spirit?
I do not see anyone in the scriptures being baptized more than once! But you do see them being filled more than once!

 

[DHK]

Are you asking what the point of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is?

We are baptized in the Spirit at the point of salvation. There is no subsequent baptism. Show me in Scripture a command to be baptized in the Spirit. There is no such command. But there is a command to be filled--Eph.5:18.

How are you able to judge my fruit? Yes! I do believe there is a command to be filled! But we are also told what to do to receive the Holy Spirit! ASK!!!

Chapter and verse, please!
How do I judge your fruit? I gave you Scripture.
You didn't see 3,000 saved as on the day of Pentecost.
You didn't see 5,000 saved just a few days later.
Do you meet every day and see souls saved every day, and added to your local church every day, as they did in Jerusalem.
Do you have the boldness to preach before the very ones that crucified Christ. You don't even have that opportunity.
Were you able to preach as Stephen preached and bring much of the leaders under such conviction that they stoned him to death. Did you see Jesus standing on the right hand of the throne of God waiting to welcome Stephen home. Were you martyred because you were so filled with the Holy Spirit that you could preach to those people with that power. I will take that as a "No," since you are still typing behind a computer.

Yes, I am able to judge your fruit, because in no way do you match up with the acts of the apostles which I quoted for you. Their acts were a demonstration of being FILLED, not being baptized with the Spirit. What has speaking in tongues done for your ministry?

Your point?
Again, your point?

They were a demonstration of being filled with Holy Spirit.
What is the evidence of your speaking in tongues?
Have thousands been saved as a result of it?

I believe we can be filled several times! I have never said that the filling was related to tongues! I said the baptism in the Holy Spirit examples in scriptures all show speaking in tongues!

The Book of Acts is a book of transition. In the epistles we have a command to be filled with the Holy Spirit; show me an equivalent command to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Are you questioning my salvation? On what basis? Because I do not believe the same as you?

Here is what I said:

These are examples of being filled with the Holy Spirit. But you can't find such examples of being baptized with the Holy Spirit, can you.
And as for your lame excuse about ministry, every believer is called to ministry! No person is excepted. Every person is a disciple of Christ. If you think you are excepted then perhaps you are not saved.

You had previously said that you didn't speak in tongues in the church because that was a "ministry gift." If you don't have "ministry gifts" or are not called to minister in the local church, then perhaps you better think things through. Read the chapter again. Every gift is given for the local church. If you don't have gifts that are directed for ministry in the local church then perhaps you are not saved. That is straight Bible teaching. It is not a matter of questioning your salvation. Study chapter 12 of 1Corinthians. Not one gift listed was to be used apart from the local church. That was not God's plan.

 

[Yeshua1]

I did not say seek...I said ask!
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)


Do you believe we can be baptized more than once in the HOly Spirit?
I do not see anyone in the scriptures being baptized more than once! But you do see them being filled more than once!

Problem is that I only see pentacost as the time of baptism, and since that time, ALL saved are baptized at salvation by the Spirit!

 

[DHK]

I have no idea what your point was when you said it was a usless experience????

Any person who claims to have a "baptism of the Holy Spirit" subsequent to salvation is simply having an emotional useless experience brought on by their own emotions, or possibly even demonic activity. Where in the Bible is there a command to be baptized by the Spirit. Show me.

Your opinion is noted!

This is what I said:

The cross is efficacious to all that believe. It has permanent results. Pentecost doesn't. If it did, you would see cloven tongues of fire and a sound like as mighty rushing wind every time you spoke in tongues, and your speaking in tongues would be real; you would know the language.

Do you deny the efficaciously of the cross? Do you deny that people can still be saved because Christ died on the cross 2,000 years ago? That is more than opinion. That is Biblical fact. If you don't believe that how can you be saved?
OTOH, if you believe that tongues have the same power you are calling the rest of us (who don't believe the same erroneous doctrine you do) heretics.

You avoided the question in context of what you posted! You said tongues (even if you do not believe they are for today) was given to the church to be done in the church! I ask you why Just tongues? Why did you limit just tongues? Do you limit the other 8 manifestations of the Holy Spirit to JUST in the church!

Yes, I limit all the gifts in 1Cor.12 to the local church. That is what is said there. Read the chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

To another.... "Another" means another member of the church, the local church that was in Corinth. That is who he is speaking to.
The body is one. That is, the body that is in Corinth, that body of believers. It has many members, many members in its church. You are not one of them. All the members of that one body of believers in Corinth (there are many of them) are one body, (just like ours).
Now read the rest of the chapter with that metaphor in mind. He is comparing the human body to the church at Corinth. Every member of that local church had a gift, and they all couldn't have the same gift. They had to be satisfied with the gift God gave them. The gifts were for use in the local church--all of them.

 

[awaken]

We are baptized in the Spirit at the point of salvation. There is no subsequent baptism. Show me in Scripture a command to be baptized in the Spirit. There is no such command. But there is a command to be filled--Eph.5:18.

I have never said there was a command!

Chapter and verse, please!

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

How do I judge your fruit? I gave you Scripture.
You didn't see 3,000 saved as on the day of Pentecost.
You didn't see 5,000 saved just a few days later.
Do you meet every day and see souls saved every day, and added to your local church every day, as they did in Jerusalem.
Do you have the boldness to preach before the very ones that crucified Christ. You don't even have that opportunity.
Were you able to preach as Stephen preached and bring much of the leaders under such conviction that they stoned him to death. Did you see Jesus standing on the right hand of the throne of God waiting to welcome Stephen home. Were you martyred because you were so filled with the Holy Spirit that you could preach to those people with that power. I will take that as a "No," since you are still typing behind a computer.

The fruit is Love joy peace etc....I ask how you could judge my fruit?

Yes, I am able to judge your fruit, because in no way do you match up with the acts of the apostles which I quoted for you. Their acts were a demonstration of being FILLED, not being baptized with the Spirit. What has speaking in tongues done for your ministry?

Again..how can you see my joy, love, peace etc?

They were a demonstration of being filled with Holy Spirit.
What is the evidence of your speaking in tongues?
Have thousands been saved as a result of it?

The Book of Acts is a book of transition. In the epistles we have a command to be filled with the Holy Spirit; show me an equivalent command to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

DHK...I have answered this over and over in thread after thread! Nowhere in scripture does it say Acts is a transitional book! NOWHERE!

Here is what I said:

These are examples of being filled with the Holy Spirit. But you can't find such examples of being baptized with the Holy Spirit, can you.
And as for your lame excuse about ministry, every believer is called to ministry! No person is excepted. Every person is a disciple of Christ. If you think you are excepted then perhaps you are not saved.

You had previously said that you didn't speak in tongues in the church because that was a "ministry gift." If you don't have "ministry gifts" or are not called to minister in the local church, then perhaps you better think things through. Read the chapter again. Every gift is given for the local church. If you don't have gifts that are directed for ministry in the local church then perhaps you are not saved. That is straight Bible teaching. It is not a matter of questioning your salvation. Study chapter 12 of 1Corinthians. Not one gift listed was to be used apart from the local church. That was not God's plan.

What you are missing is that all the manifestations can be done outside the assembly! Including tongues!

 

[awaken]

Problem is that I only see pentacost as the time of baptism, and since that time, ALL saved are baptized at salvation by the Spirit!

What happen in Acts 10? The same thing that happen in Acts 2! What you guys miss is the Spirit upon and the Spirit within! There is a difference!

 

[awaken]

Any person who claims to have a "baptism of the Holy Spirit" subsequent to salvation is simply having an emotional useless experience brought on by their own emotions, or possibly even demonic activity. Where in the Bible is there a command to be baptized by the Spirit. Show me.

This is what I said:

The cross is efficacious to all that believe. It has permanent results. Pentecost doesn't. If it did, you would see cloven tongues of fire and a sound like as mighty rushing wind every time you spoke in tongues, and your speaking in tongues would be real; you would know the language.

Do you deny the efficaciously of the cross? Do you deny that people can still be saved because Christ died on the cross 2,000 years ago? That is more than opinion. That is Biblical fact. If you don't believe that how can you be saved?
OTOH, if you believe that tongues have the same power you are calling the rest of us (who don't believe the same erroneous doctrine you do) heretics.

Yes, I limit all the gifts in 1Cor.12 to the local church. That is what is said there. Read the chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

To another.... "Another" means another member of the church, the local church that was in Corinth. That is who he is speaking to.
The body is one. That is, the body that is in Corinth, that body of believers. It has many members, many members in its church. You are not one of them. All the members of that one body of believers in Corinth (there are many of them) are one body, (just like ours).
Now read the rest of the chapter with that metaphor in mind. He is comparing the human body to the church at Corinth. Every member of that local church had a gift, and they all couldn't have the same gift. They had to be satisfied with the gift God gave them. The gifts were for use in the local church--all of them.

I will agree that they are given to the church! But not just for the local assembly! I have explained all that! You are saying that a Word of Wisdom or knowledge can not be spoken outside the assembly...I say they can! Along with praying in the spirit!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You can not prove your assumption in scripture! You are the one that has to believe it was only done because it was a first time for those certain people!
No where in scriptures does it come back and say.." Ok, that was a one time for those...we are going to do it different for you!"
THose were examples of how one is baptized in the Holy Spirit, period! It is plain in Acts 8 that they were saved and baptized...are you saying now that they did not recieve the indwelling Holy Spirit? If you will read close the term used when they laid hands on them were SPIRIT UPON! Just like in Acts 1:8 it says you will be baptized when the Spirit comes UPON you!

You are too dense to know how to read scripture in context and to discern the meaning of it. There were ONLY THREE TIMES in all of scripture that HS baptism was delayed, and each was a special circumstance that required WITNESSES, FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE, WHICH WAS THE REASON FOR THE DELAY. But Charismatics want and HAVE TO take these three exceptional circumstances to prove that not all believers receive the HS baptism when they believe, and that this baptism must be sought after conversion, and further that the evidence of it is tongues. But what does scripture say? 1 Cor. 12:13 -- "For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body...." Not some, not a few. ALL This is what the entire church believed and taught for the first 1900 years of its existence, until Parham and Seymour invented Pentecostalism based on occult influences, 113 years ago. So, is this who you want to follow instead of sound scriptural teaching? So sad to be so deceived.

The scripture totally refutes and destroys Charismatic doctrine and its vain babblings which are not the tongues of the scriptures.

Charismatic doctrine sets up a spiritual caste system where those who have been HS baptized and speak in tongues are elevated above and separated from those who have supposedly not been. As such, it is divisive, arrogant, elitist, exclusivist, and an enemy of scripture and the true Gospel. No believer has to seek HS baptism, as each and every believer is baptized by the HS upon coming to faith.

 

[Luke2427]

I will agree that they are given to the church! But not just for the local assembly! I have explained all that! You are saying that a Word of Wisdom or knowledge can not be spoken outside the assembly...I say they can! Along with praying in the spirit!

Subjective experience- that's it. That's all you are touting.

You folks are not predicting the future (prophesy).

You folks are not healing the sick (no life time paralytics are getting up and walking out of your churches).

You folks are not speaking foreign languages fluently which you have never studied (tongues- that's all tongues ever was. It was never mindless gibberish).

You don't realize it because you will not critique your own beliefs, but what you are pressing is VERY harmful to Christianity in this culture.

Popes for above a thousand years have thought that God spoke to them. From that evil error we got some of history's most horrific events.

You are no different from the Popes.

God is not speaking to you- no more than he speaks to the Pope- but you ABSOLUTELY, STUBBORNLY REFUSE to consider that.

And the DEADLY outcome is that you people are leading a society of IDIOTS (which is what America has become) into the darkness of the Middle Ages.

I pray for a revival of Sola Scriptura- SCRIPTURE ALONE!!!!!!!


That is how God speaks.

How DARE you, I mean how DARE you add to it!!!!!

 

[awaken]

Subjective experience- that's it. That's all you are touting.

You folks are not predicting the future (prophesy).

Prophesy is not predicting the future! It is for edification, exhortation and comfort! The Greek word that is translated "prophesy means to speak for another, So "prophesy can mean to speak for God or to be His spokesman.

You folks are not healing the sick (no life time paralytics are getting up and walking out of your churches).

You folks are not speaking foreign languages fluently which you have never studied (tongues- that's all tongues ever was. It was never mindless gibberish).

I have always said it was language that the speaker himself does not know!

You don't realize it because you will not critique your own beliefs, but what you are pressing is VERY harmful to Christianity in this culture.

Popes for above a thousand years have thought that God spoke to them. From that evil error we got some of history's most horrific events.

You are no different from the Popes.

God is not speaking to you- no more than he speaks to the Pope- but you ABSOLUTELY, STUBBORNLY REFUSE to consider that.

And the DEADLY outcome is that you people are leading a society of IDIOTS (which is what America has become) into the darkness of the Middle Ages.

I pray for a revival of Sola Scriptura- SCRIPTURE ALONE!!!!!!!


That is how God speaks.

How DARE you, I mean how DARE you add to it!!!!!

You do not add to or take away from the Word of God by manifesting the Holy Spirit as described in 1 Cor. 12-14!
The word says his sheep will know his voice! He does speak to us on a personal level! He does put in our spirit some word of wisdom or knowledge to share with others! None of it takes away or adds to the Word of God!

 

[awaken]

You are too dense to know how to read scripture in context and to discern the meaning of it. There were ONLY THREE TIMES in all of scripture that HS baptism was delayed, and each was a special circumstance that required WITNESSES, FOR A SPECIFIC PURPOSE, WHICH WAS THE REASON FOR THE DELAY. But Charismatics want and HAVE TO take these three exceptional circumstances to prove that not all believers receive the HS baptism when they believe, and that this baptism must be sought after conversion, and further that the evidence of it is tongues. But what does scripture say? 1 Cor. 12:13 -- "For by one Spirit we were ALL baptized into one body...." Not some, not a few. ALL This is what the entire church believed and taught for the first 1900 years of its existence, until Parham and Seymour invented Pentecostalism based on occult influences, 113 years ago. So, is this who you want to follow instead of sound scriptural teaching? So sad to be so deceived.

The scripture totally refutes and destroys Charismatic doctrine and its vain babblings which are not the tongues of the scriptures.

Charismatic doctrine sets up a spiritual caste system where those who have been HS baptized and speak in tongues are elevated above and separated from those who have supposedly not been. As such, it is divisive, arrogant, elitist, exclusivist, and an enemy of scripture and the true Gospel. No believer has to seek HS baptism, as each and every believer is baptized by the HS upon coming to faith.

You can ignore the examples in the Word of God if you want? Do you by chance manifest any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1 Cor. 12-14?

 

[DHK]

I will agree that they are given to the church! But not just for the local assembly! I have explained all that! You are saying that a Word of Wisdom or knowledge can not be spoken outside the assembly...I say they can! Along with praying in the spirit!

The "church" ekklesia, is "the local assembly". There is no other meaning for the word. Who do you think Paul was talking to? Some pie-in-the-sky, metaphysical, esoteric, existential concept that has never existed and that they would never be able to grasp. He was talking to them as a local assembly.

1 Corinthians 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
--It was local. If one member suffered all the members suffered with that member. That can only be possible in a local assembly. All the gifts were to be used in context of a local assembly. The Word of Wisdom was not to be used outside of that context. There is no such thing as praying in the spirit, the way that you have defined it. You have been duped into the heresy of "neo-orthodoxy." You change the meanings of words to fit your own theology instead of sticking with Biblical terminology.

 

[DHK]

I have never said there was a command!

If there is no command it is not important. Don't seek it. Don't tell others to seek it. The command is to be filled not to be baptized. Why are you seeking something that is not commanded, and in fact, doesn't even exist, except possibly as a one time event at salvation. Adhere to the Scriptures instead of following after vain philosophies and errant doctrine.

"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)

What has that got to do with the price of coffee in Columbia?
It has nothing to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The fruit is Love joy peace etc....I ask how you could judge my fruit?

We were speaking of the resultant effects of the filling of the Holy Spirit. What happens when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit? What happened when the Apostles were filled the Holy Spirit? I demonstrated to you through Scriptures what happened. It wasn't simply the fruit of the Spirit. It was far more than that. And your life doesn't even come close.

Again..how can you see my joy, love, peace etc?

That has nothing to do with being filled with the Holy Spirit, so it is totally irrelevant.

DHK...I have answered this over and over in thread after thread! Nowhere in scripture does it say Acts is a transitional book! NOWHERE!

The doctrine of the church is found in the epistles. The history of the church is found in the Book of Acts. It is that simple. We have what are called "Pastoral Epistles" for a reason--Paul sets forth instructions to pastors principles of order on how the local churches are to be run. In the other epistles he writes concerning doctrine. In 1Cor. the key verse is 1Cor.7:1a: Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
He is saying, here are the answers to the questions, questions of doctrine, that you have asked me about. One of those questions had to do with the gifts of the Spirit. It was doctrinal. It was after the historical examples given in Acts. What took place on Pentecost was 25 years previous to what he writes to the Corinthians. Now he has the full picture and is able to write them about the doctrine of "the gifts of the Spirit." The history has passed. We learn from the doctrine that he has written about.

What you are missing is that all the manifestations can be done outside the assembly! Including tongues!

There are no manifestations done outside the church. The gifts were given for the local church. Read chapter 12. Read it until you understand it.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You can ignore the examples in the Word of God if you want? Do you by chance manifest any of the 9 gifts mentioned in 1 Cor. 12-14?

I'm not ignoring anything. That's your department.

Every believer has at least one spiritual gift.