:thumbsup: Spot on
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Theology and The Future of the SBC
- Thread starter Thousand Hills
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:thumbsup: Spot on
That's a lovely idea. I wonder if it's true. I'm sure there are certain congregations in which it is the case.
Not just from among Jews but Gentiles internationally.
Of course you ought to know if someone's sins have been taken away they will not suffer eternal torment. Not all people since time began are in heaven or heaven bound. Therefore Christ did not die for each and everyone's sins. That's double jeopardy. If Christ "took somone's sins" yet they go to Perdition they will suffer for their sins. Their sins were consequently not taken away by Christ.
Not only from among Jews but Gentiles too --from among every nation,tribe and tongue. Of course you must realize if someone's sins have been propitiated then there will be no wrath stored up for that one. Yet many have lived and died dead in their sins. Their sins have not been propitiated. They will experience the Second Death. And there they will remain for eternity paying for their sins that Christ did not pay for.
Christ died for the believing ones. His Father loved the elect scattered throught the earth to such an extent that He gave His one and only Son for the express purpose to take their sins upon Himself as the Perfect Lamb of God.
And this is what passes as rebuttal among Calvinists. Good golly Miss Molly.
1) A Calvinist indicated the hub of the SBC is Calvinism, not me.
2) The "world" refers to fallen mankind, and thus if any single person of the world has his sin taken away, then the sin of the world has been taken away.
3) No one said Christ died for each and every person's sins, but rather Christ died for the whole world, everybody, and therefore both those saved and those unsaved were bought with His blood. 1 Peter 2:1
4) Since each saved individual's sins are removed by the circumcision of Christ, after a person is placed spiritually in Christ, the Calvinist assertion that if Christ died for the whole world, then all of the sins of the world were removed is pure twaddle.
5) Christ's death made the removal of the sin burden available to all mankind, but only those whose faith God credits as righteousness are placed in Christ and have their sin burden removed.
6) Note the inability to read 1 John 2:2 in context. There is that word again. Who was John writing to. "I am not writing to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it." Therefore the us is not Jews in 1 John 2:2, but believers in Christ. Calvinism's biblical understanding does not pass muster.
7) Back at it again, no one said Christ becoming the propitiation for the whole world means He propitiated the whole world. Calvinism relies on misrepresenting the views of other.
8) Christ did not die only for the believing ones, but for the lost, all mankind. That is why 1 Peter 2:1 says a lost person had been bought. Calvinism's biblical understand does not pass muster.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I rarely understand anyone around here, except for Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, and particularly when they speak sarcasm. That I pick up on usually very easy.
I was not being sarcastic when I asked you to explain what Van meant by the following:
Perhaps if the first sentence made sense the remainder would. I don't know but I thought your mathematical mind could help me out!
quantumfaith
Active Member
One key to remaining a Calvinist is to suspend reality. When 1 Peter 1:2-1 says a false teacher was bought with the Master's blood, the Calvinist says uh, what, that makes no sense since Calvinism says otherwise.
When I say Calvinism nullifies, makes to no effect, 1 Peter 2:1, the Calvinists say "I do not understand, that makes no sense, since it conflicts with Calvinism.
On and on, folk, on and on.
When I say Calvinism nullifies, makes to no effect, 1 Peter 2:1, the Calvinists say "I do not understand, that makes no sense, since it conflicts with Calvinism.
On and on, folk, on and on.
Do you acknowledge that the English word "world" has multiple meanings or sises accoring to the various contexts it is in?
You are contradicting yourself Van.
What meaningful distinction is there between the two phrases you just used?
So when John 3:16 says that "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" doesn't that negate your claim?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
If you say so!I am "off" for the holidays.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Yes but Paul says the Gospel s the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
Who are those who believe, the elect or the whole world?
quantumfaith
Active Member
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Everyone or anyone who chooses to be.
Why do some choose to be while others do not. The Arminian theologians on this Forum are unable to answer this question perhaps a mathematician can!
Jn 3:14 is a 'pointer' to the reason 'why' some do and others don't, but it's in the form of a type or example and the literal interpretation bent of dispy/Arminian/mathematician seals the door shut to the spiritual rendering and they're unable to go deeper than the letter and they remain, well, dull.
But then there's Jn 3:21 that's quite plain and concise and direct to the point and, well, they still remain dull.
But then there's Jn 3:21 that's quite plain and concise and direct to the point and, well, they still remain dull.
Personal incredulity on display as rebuttal
I have shown the word translated as "world" is used in the New Testament to mean three distinctly different groups.
1) All creation, the kosmos of creation.
2) Fallen mankind, the Kosmos of man.
3) Gentiles, the kosmos of Gentiles.
Paul uses all three meanings, but John use is entirely number 2.
Christ becoming the propitiation became the means of salvation, whereas to be propitiated refers to being saved. Anyone placed in the propitiatory shelter, Christ, is propitiated, made holy and blameless.
No, the claim not from Van but from John (1 John 2:2) is Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind. However, God only sets individuals apart in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, based on crediting their belief in Christ as righteousness. Thus, John 3:16, whoever believes in Him (as determined by God) shall not perish but have eternal life.
No conflicts, inconsistencies or ambiguities.
I have shown the word translated as "world" is used in the New Testament to mean three distinctly different groups.
1) All creation, the kosmos of creation.
2) Fallen mankind, the Kosmos of man.
3) Gentiles, the kosmos of Gentiles.
Paul uses all three meanings, but John use is entirely number 2.
The false teacher of 2 Peter 2:1, had been bought but was unsaved. This purchase or ransom of everyone, all mankind, did not redeem, save, or remove the sins of any individual, but like an oil lease, Christ purchased the right to redeem, save and remove the sins of any individual God places in Christ.
Christ becoming the propitiation became the means of salvation, whereas to be propitiated refers to being saved. Anyone placed in the propitiatory shelter, Christ, is propitiated, made holy and blameless.
No, the claim not from Van but from John (1 John 2:2) is Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all mankind. However, God only sets individuals apart in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, based on crediting their belief in Christ as righteousness. Thus, John 3:16, whoever believes in Him (as determined by God) shall not perish but have eternal life.
No conflicts, inconsistencies or ambiguities.
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Jacob_Elliott
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