Theoretical sinlessness

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

GLF: Only Pelagians and semi-Pelagians depend on the actions of human agents to move the hand of God.

HP: That is a statement made in ignorance. No one believes that God 'depends' on the actions of human agents to move His hands. Show me one solitary place that such is stated. Calvinism has not only blinded you to the truth, but allows you to build strawman arguments whenever you so desire.

God in HIS SOVEREIGNTY has CHOSEN HIMSELF to allow the actions of men to be directly involved in salvation. That is not God depending on man for anything. That is God choosing by HIMSELF the means by which He sovereignly saves.

Who are you to tell God how He can sovereignly choose to set forth His salvation and the means by which He has sovereignly chose? It is the Calvinist that tells God what He can and cannot do. It is the Calvinist that tries to tie the hand of God to only move as they direct (or confound) His choices.

 

[glfredrick]

Say WHAT GLF?? Listen to an 'orthodox' and highly touted Calvinistic father.


Whitfield: "I can say that I cannot pray but I sin — I cannot preach to you or any others but I sin — I can do nothing without sin; and, as one expresseth it, my repentance wants to be repented of, and my tears to be washed in the precious blood of my dear Redeemer. Our best duties are as so many splendid sins."

Whitfield speaks the truth. Are you suggesting that some work of humanity is worthy of God? Can you argue that without doing great harm and division in the Scriptures?

Again, PLEASE READ what I am saying... The Calvinist says that NO WORK OF MAN can do anything regarding the salvific encounter with God. Not that we can do no work that may or may not be pleasing to God.

And citing ONE LINE from ONE CALVINIST does not destroy the entire corpus of belief that surrounds the doctrine. Whitfield was lamenting in a way we can find in Scripture, especially the Psalms, and also in Paul. No matter how hard we try to be pleasing to God, we are creatures with a sin nature and we sin often, and sometimes when we don't even know it. That's what Whitfield was saying, but that does not eliminate the possibility that we might actually do some godly action. Does not God even say that when he says:

Matt 7:11 (ESV) If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Therein, we see BOTH SIDES of this issue. We see Jesus calling us "evil" (total depravity) and yet He is also saying that we know how to give "good gifts."

Here is another biblical statement on the subject:

Isa 64:6 (ESV) We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Our "righteous deeds" are unclean like a polluted garment (filthy rags in KJV -- the Hebrew connotation is pus-filled menstral rags).

God has made it clear that we can do works that are godly, but yet they do not effect our overall position with God, i.e., dead in our sin and trespasses in need of a supernatural rebirth that only God can provide.

You guys keep chasing your very human-centered religious perspectives. I'll stick with what God says in His Word.

 

[glfredrick]

HP: That is a statement made in ignorance. No one believes that God 'depends' on the actions of human agents to move His hands. Show me one solitary place that such is stated. Calvinism has not only blinded you to the truth, but allows you to build strawman arguments whenever you so desire.

God in HIS SOVEREIGNTY has CHOSEN HIMSELF to allow the actions of men to be directly involved in salvation. That is not God depending on man for anything. That is God choosing by HIMSELF the means by which He sovereignly saves.

Who are you to tell God how He can sovereignly choose to set forth His salvation and the means by which He has sovereignly chose? It is the Calvinist that tells God what He can and cannot do. It is the Calvinist that tries to tie the hand of God to only move as they direct (or confound) His choices.

You say that with every post you make. God "chooses" the ones whom He sees turning to Him in faith. That is a work of human origin that somehow moves the hand of God.

You continually attempt to beat up and otherwise harrass those who hold to a true picture of God's sovereignty by saying things like, "God plays favorites when He elects some people according to some standard that only He holds." Or, that Calvinists believe what I have repeatedly said they do not hold. That is the work of the enemy of God -- the "accuser of the brethren."

And, for the record, you are arguing with me without actually citing a single Scripture. More so, you are arguing against Calvinism, not against a faulty view of Scripture. You are exposed!

 

[Darrell C]

The more one relies on exegesis of Scripture for the basis of their doctrines RATHER THAN an argument against a particular theological view, the more one will see that God is indeed God and that we are indeed not God.
Because the Scriptures are very plain concerning the lack of ability for a human being to be without sin.

[QUOTE/]

Do you mean the one who relies only on the word of God is in error? LOL


[QUOTE/] Calvinists SURELY do not. They DO say that God RIGHTLY has dominion over His creation and that He DID elect before the foundations of the world. That is God's domain and He has the right, privelege, and ability to do whatsoever He deems JUST and RIGHTEOUS in that regard. [QUOTE/]


I know what Calvinists believe. Calvinists believe that God for no reason known, made humans without the capability to believe, and then saved some for no known reason, while making some for Hell for no reason or fault of their own.

[QUOTE/]To involk a term like "favoritism" to God is both blasphemy and heretical. No one, Calvinist or not, can do so without having a total disregard for the simple fact that God is God and we are not.[QUOTE/]

Calvinism is full of false doctrines. I have shown that clearly.

[QUOTE/]Calvinists are also certain that when all is seen clearly, i.e., when we are in the presence of God (remember that pesky little verse, "every knee will bow and every tongue confess...") that they will acceed to God His perfect justice and holiness and they will equally agree that God was ABSOLUTELY correct in His assessment of all things. How else can it be? Are we to say that it is even remotely possible for God to be in error? [QUOTE/]

NO, YOU are in error.

[QUOTE/] God forbid that we even harbor that concept. Yet time and again, sinful human beings rebel against Holy God and create all sorts of false religious ideas about the self-worth of humanity to approach and yes, even manipulate the hand of God. They are, in essence, saying that God can and does make a mistake, but we are good enough to correct Him. I shudder at that thought... God be merciful to such sinners![QUOTE/]

You would rather pretend that people are calling God into question, rather than question your own beliefs!


[QUOTE/] As long as you continue to argue against a stereotype and strawman Calvinism you will gain no ground, for you are arguing against something that does not exist in truth.[QUOTE/]

This is almost funny. You are the one with the straw man tactics.


[QUOTE/]That is indeed what the Scriptures say... The Scriptures also record Jonah being elected by God to speak a word of repentance to the people of Ninevah, and they did indeed repent and fall on their faces before Holy God. Would you, by way of your incorrect illustration of what is happening in Scripture disavow what God did with Gentile non-believers?[QUOTE/]

According to Calvinists, God had to make them born again before they could submit! Your beliefs go against so many scriptures it is horrific.


[QUOTE/]So, God seemed to have a plan that He was working out for the "whole world" including Gentiles like Cornelius, and seeing as how salvation is by God alone, what God did in the heart of Cornelius is God's business, not ours to use and manipulate to divide God's actions as seen in the Scriptures!
[QUOTE/]

When you say things, such as what you say here, THAT IS ADDING TO THE SCRIPTURES BELIEFS THAT ARE NOT THERE! YOU ADD TO GOD’S WORD WHEN YOU SAY THAT. GOD SAYS NOT TO ADD TO HIS WORD! YOU ARE IN TERRIBLE ERROR.

Moriah, I can see you are working on quoting, and just want to give a little bit of advice:

When you hit the "quote" button, what you are responding to appears in what I call the "quote box," in which you respond to the other poster.

At the top of the statement you will see the other person's name in brackets...[ ]. In this post you have that, but apparently something was missed, as it didn't come out when you posted the response, probably the problem lies here:


[QUOTE/]

If you go back and edit and change the / to be in front of the Q it will correct the quoting.

An easy way (and the fastest) to break up a post you are responding to is to first copy the [OUOTE=Moriah;1780939] that you see at the top of what you are responding to (and here I have changed Q to O so that it does not quote for the purpose of illustration).

Break up the post however you want to address it, line by line or paragrapg by paragraph, and then paste the [OUOTE=Moriah;1780939] just before each section.

Then copy the [/OUOTE] (and again q changed to O to keep it from actually quoting) at the end of each segment.

That is all there is to it.

God bless.

 

[glfredrick]

Here is what Spurgeon -- a Baptist -- had to say on this issue:

We shall notice, first, the great Doctrine, that God only is our salvation. Secondly, the great experience, to know and to learn that, “He only is my Rock and my salvation. And, thirdly, the great duty, which you may guess is to give all the glory and all the honor and place all our faith on Him “who only is our Rock and our Salvation.”

I. The first thing is THE GREAT DOCTRINE—that God “only is our Rock and our Salvation.” If anyone should ask us what we would choose for our motto, as preachers of the Gospel, we think we would reply, “God only is our Salvation.”
The late lamented Mr. Denham has put at the foot of his portrait a most admirable text, “Salvation is of the Lord.” Now that is just an epitome of Calvinism—it is the sum and the substance of it. If anyone should ask you what you mean by a Calvinist, you may reply, “he is one who says, salvation is of the Lord.” I cannot find in Scripture any other Doctrine than this. It is the essence of the Bible. “He only is my Rock and my Salvation.” Tell me anything that departs from this and it will be a heresy. Tell me a heresy and I shall find its essence here—that it has departed from this great, this fundamental, this rocky Truth of God—“God is my Rock and my Salvation.”

What is the heresy of Rome but the addition of something to the perfect merits of Jesus Christ—the bringing in of the works of the flesh to assist in our justification? And what is that heresy of Arminianism but the secret addition of something to the complete work of the Redeemer? You will find that every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here—it departs from this— “He only is my Rock and my Salvation.”

 

[Moriah]

So do Presbyterians, Baptists, and, yes, Arminians, Wesleyans, Methodists, Anglicans, and just about everyone else in the church world.

I find it interesting that SOME GROUPS of Baptists have turned to Pelagian or semi-Pelagian soteriology in their quest to make sure that "whosoever wills" is true. Only Pelagians and semi-Pelagians depend on the actions of human agents to move the hand of God.

But let's say that a man does indeed "will" to believe in God. So what? Must God accept that will of man? Is He sitting there on His throne, wringing His hands, saying, "Oh, I sure do hope that one comes to Me..."? I doubt it. That is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible does indeed gift us, yes, even with faith to believe.

Silly man... We cannot even know that God exists unless He initiates the encounter.

So, we agree that without God salvation is impossible, or would you disagree with that statement?

And we agree that Calvinists believe that God grants the faith to belive (so do Arminians).

So where do we go from here? Do you understand what the term "total depravity" means? It is certainly not what you are describing...

You said: So do Presbyterians, Baptists, and, yes, Arminians, Wesleyans, Methodists, Anglicans, and just about everyone else in the church world.
I find it interesting that SOME GROUPS of Baptists have turned to Pelagian or semi-Pelagian soteriology in their quest to make sure that "whosoever wills" is true. Only Pelagians and semi-Pelagians depend on the actions of human agents to move the hand of God.

My reply: I only believe in what the Word of God says. You are the one who sins by claiming you follow mere men such as John Calvin. The Bible forbids us say we follow mere men.

You said: But let's say that a man does indeed "will" to believe in God. So what? Must God accept that will of man?

My reply: That does not make sense! My Master sent people to tell me His commands; I did what my Master said to do.

You said: Is He sitting there on His throne, wringing His hands, saying, "Oh, I sure do hope that one comes to Me..."? I doubt it. That is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible does indeed gift us, yes, even with faith to believe.

My reply: You do not understand who God is. For God knew everyone’s heart, EVEN BEFORE WE HAD A HEART. God is Amazing.

You said: Silly man... We cannot even know that God exists unless He initiates the encounter.

My reply: Hahahahaha…who are you calling silly man. Are you finally understanding. God initiates, then we either respond or resist!

You said: So, we agree that without God salvation is impossible, or would you disagree with that statement?

My reply: Of course, there is no reconciliation with God, only through Jesus.

You said: And we agree that Calvinists believe that God grants the faith to belive (so do Arminians).

My reply: I am NOT Arminian. What do you do to obey the Word of God? Do you not know it is sin to say you follow a mere man? Why do you not know that naturally, naturally as someone who follows the Spirit. If Jesus had not come, NNE would know what faith was; HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that God gives us the Holy Spirit to cause us to have faith! That is NOWHERE in the scriptures.

You said: So where do we go from here? Do you understand what the term "total depravity" means? It is certainly not what you are describing...

My reply: I definitely know what total depravity means. You think that you can dismiss the truth and me just by saying I do not understand, now that makes you at least a delusional person.

 

[12strings]

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1, KJV)

 

[Winman]

Yes, here is what a "start quote" looks like; [QU@TE] Of course, write the word QUOTE.

Now an "end quote" [/QU@TE]. Again, write QUOTE.

To quote a previous poster, include the statement you wish to quote within a "start quote" and an "end quote".

An example;

[QU@TE] <--- start quote
Here is the statement I wish to quote.
[/QU@TE] <--- end quote

When you write QUOTE, this will come out like this;

Here is the statement I wish to quote.

 

[Moriah]

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1, KJV)

Paul is saying to imitate him, not to say we have his beliefs. Paul an Apostle of Christ says to imitate him. They are not any other man’s words they are Jesus’ words. Do you really think that Paul would approve of people calling their selves a Paulist? People call themselves Calvinists after John Calvin and Arminians after Arminius. Paul says not to do that. Is that really so hard for you to understand? However, you really are an imitator of Calvin, and who but a man of false doctrine is Calvin? You admit you belong to Calvin when you call yourself a Calvinist.
1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere men?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

 

[DHK]

HP: I am not for sure what you mean by a nature 'prone to sin.'

Robert Robinson, in 1759 wrote these words:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus sought me when a stranger, Wand'ring from the fold of God,
He, to rescue me from danger, Interposed his precious blood,
Prone to wander, Lord I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love.
O to grace how great a debtor Daily I'm constrained to be!
Let they goodness, like a fetter, Bind my wandering heart to thee

Prone to wander, Lord I feel it, Prone to leave the God I love.
Here's my heart. O take and seal it; Seal it for thy courts above.[/FONT]

He certainly believed in a depraved nature. He knew that all mankind is "prone to wander to leave the God they love," even after they are saved. It is the old nature that causes that inward desire.

Certainly as believers we experience temptation to sin, but we have received a new nature as believers where the least that should be said of our practice as believers is that sin is no longer the ordinary practice in our lives, but rather sin should be the unordinary or unusual, happening only under possible extreme temptations to sin.

Unfortunately it isn't always true. Every believer sins every day. Deny it, and you have just lied.

I would agree that in heaven we will not have the same temptations that we face here in this world, in particular we will not be plagued with temptations via the natural depraved sensibilities

(aka sin nature--glad you agree)

or from Satan and the world. I would like to think that no temptation in any form could be possible in the world to come but I am not certain that Scripture supports that entirely. If temptation in any form exists in heaven, we can be assured we will be together with the Lord forever.

HP: How about we both work on our attitudes together? Is a rare bird indeed that couldn't stand some change in their attitudes at least at times. I know I sure need help from time to time in that department. Just ask my wife.

Again, your very words belie a sin nature.

HP: It should be our purpose, in this present world, never sin again. With man that's impossible but with God all things are possible.

God does not go against His Word. He did not die in vain. His death was for sinners. His death was for all sinners in the world, or for all. That includes you. You are a sinner--from birth onward. If you weren't a sinner from birth, then Christ didn't die for you did he?

Of a truth it is impossible to try to achieve something that one views as a natural impossibility. I believe it is God's will that we live holy and pure lives before Him on a daily basis in spite of all adversities, temptations, hurt from others, pain, hardship, defamation of character by others, lack, peril, misunderstandings, rejection, or abandonment even by those we love.

It is God's will that all should come to repentance and none should perish. But God's will is not always accomplished because of the depravity of the human heart.

1Th 5:16

Rejoice evermore.

1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
1Th 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

I know for a fact that you do not keep these commandments as they are written. Therefore it is proof that you are a sinner. You sin continually. That in itself is evidence of your depraved nature which you inherited from birth.

 

[Moriah]

Robert Robinson, in 1759 wrote these words:

He certainly believed in a depraved nature. He knew that all mankind is "prone to wander to leave the God they love," even after they are saved. It is the old nature that causes that inward desire.

Unfortunately it isn't always true. Every believer sins every day. Deny it, and you have just lied.
(aka sin nature--glad you agree)
Again, your very words belie a sin nature.

God does not go against His Word. He did not die in vain. His death was for sinners. His death was for all sinners in the world, or for all. That includes you. You are a sinner--from birth onward. If you weren't a sinner from birth, then Christ didn't die for you did he?

It is God's will that all should come to repentance and none should perish. But God's will is not always accomplished because of the depravity of the human heart.

I know for a fact that you do not keep these commandments as they are written. Therefore it is proof that you are a sinner. You sin continually. That in itself is evidence of your depraved nature which you inherited from birth.

You said: Unfortunately it isn't always true. Every believer sins every day. Deny it, and you have just lied.

My reply: NOT EVERYONE SINS EVERYDAY. You call others liars for saying they do not sin every day. You are the liar. You proclaim you are a sinner, and here your sin is lying, add slanderer to that also.

You said: I know for a fact that you do not keep these commandments as they are written. Therefore it is proof that you are a sinner. You sin continually. That in itself is evidence of your depraved nature which you inherited from birth.

My reply: The only thing that you have proved is that you have not changed one bit since being a Christian, and you do not know what it is to die and have life through the Spirit.

 

[DHK]

You said: Unfortunately it isn't always true. Every believer sins every day. Deny it, and you have just lied.

My reply: NOT EVERYONE SINS EVERYDAY. You call others liars for saying they do not sin every day. You are the liar. You proclaim you are a sinner, and here your sin is lying, add slanderer to that also.

You said: I know for a fact that you do not keep these commandments as they are written. Therefore it is proof that you are a sinner. You sin continually. That in itself is evidence of your depraved nature which you inherited from birth.

My reply: The only thing that you have proved is that you have not changed one bit since being a Christian, and you do not know what it is to die and have life through the Spirit.

Your pride, arrogance, and possible anger are all evident in this post. All are sinful attitudes--sin.

 

[Moriah]

Your pride, arrogance, and possible anger are all evident in this post. All are sinful attitudes--sin.

You are a slanderer. You are everything you falsely accuse me. I say shame on you for having a dead doctrine of sin, and preaching it to others.

 

[DHK]

You are a slanderer. You are everything you falsely accuse me. I say shame on you for having a dead doctrine of sin, and preaching it to others.

Not at all.
I observe.
I observe your post and the commands that were posted.

The first one: Rejoice evermore.
There was no joy in your post. It was posted in seeming "anger," but if not, there was not a hint of joy or rejoicing.

The second was: to be thankful in all things. Were you thankful for the post I made? No, it was quite evident that you despised my post. You were not thankful at all.

Just in those two commands you sinned. That is evident, isn't it?

 

[Moriah]

Not at all.
I observe.
I observe your post and the commands that were posted.

The first one: Rejoice evermore.
There was no joy in your post. It was posted in seeming "anger," but if not, there was not a hint of joy or rejoicing.

The second was: to be thankful in all things. Were you thankful for the post I made? No, it was quite evident that you despised my post. You were not thankful at all.

Just in those two commands you sinned. That is evident, isn't it?

Like I said before, you have a doctrine of sin, and it is death. You preach evil, you admit evil, and you falsely accuse others of evil, even to the saints.

 

[DHK]

Like I said before, you have a doctrine of sin, and it is death. You preach evil, you admit evil, and you falsely accuse others of evil, even to the saints.

Are you sinless?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Lets examine this remark of Spurgeon in the light of reason and the Scriptures. Spurgeon: "God alone is our salvation." "He is the rock of my salvation." "Tell me anything that departs from this and it will be heresy." "God is my Rock and my salvation."

Then Mr, Denhams quote on his portrait. "Salvation is of the Lord." Spurgeon claims that comment is " the epitome of Calvinism."

It is no wonder why we, on this forum, are witnessing the callous disregard for others in the faith. They are doing nothing other than following in the footsteps of their fathers. Known to them by their real names or not, or whether they have read such men personally or not, when they regurgitate the notions of their fathers, labeling all others that might disagree with their interpretation of Scripture as heretics, they are following in their footsteps.

It is nothing short of arrogance to make such universal remarks such as the ones quoted above, (with the exception of the 'heresy' remark of Spurgeon), and act as if though Calvinist's alone have the right to say such things, all others being imposters or heretical. Take the remark that "He only is my rock and my salvation." Every Arminian as well as many others opposed to Calvinism would agree with that Scriptural statement. The problem is not in the statement itself, but rather it is in the Calvinistic manner in which some such as Spurgeon interpret that verse. Mr. Spurgeon had the audacity to act as if he alone was the interpreter that Scripture and that anyone would dare find fault with his interpretation was automatically a heretic. What an arrogant and egotistical position to force upon the Word of God and other believers. Scripture proves Mr. Spurgeon wrong. The Bible says Scripture is of no private interpretation.

Again it is not the words themselves of Scripture, but rather Spurgeon's 'interpretation' of the words, that he holds all men to. Any man that doesn't agree with his 'interpretation' and formulated dogmas, is automatically heretical in Spurgeon's eyes. Not on the basis of what they believe or don't believe from Scripture, but rather on the account of whether or not one agrees or disagrees with Spurgeon's private interpretation of Scripture.

So here Mr. Spurgeon has set himself up to be the sole diviner of Scripture, all others heretics. That tells be a whole lot about a man's character.

I don't care what some think he accomplished from the pulpit, Spurgeon has no rights to set the boundary on who is and who is not in the faith based upon whether or not they agree with his private interpretation of Scripture. Spurgeon was not God, and neither are any of us. We would all do well to take the acknowledgment of Scripture and ask ourselves, "Who are we to judge another man's servant?"

For whatever Mr. Spurgeon was great at, he certainly failed to practice humility and clearly lacked even an entry level understanding of love, and how to treat those that Christ accepts as His.

Truth did not come into being or die with Spurgeon or anyone else. We have every right to call ourselves Christian believers while disagreeing with Mr. Spurgeon's remarks as he interprets them. He was not the vicar of Christ, nor are those that follow after his errors. Those that are following the steps of Mr. Spurgeon, and suggest that all others that might disagree with their private interpretations of Scripture, are heretical, show forth as much arrogant bias and lack of brotherly love as Spurgeon did in his 'heretical' remarks.

The epitome of Calvinism is 'my way....all others are heretics.' The words, "Salvation is of the Lord" belongs to all believers, not simply Calvinistic ones.

 

[Moriah]

Are you sinless?

Like I said before, you have a doctrine of sin, and it is death. You preach evil, you admit to evil, and you falsely accuse others of evil, even to the saints.
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

You claim you and every Christian CONTINUES to sin. Obviously, you go AGAINST the Word of God.

1 John 5:18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.

Again, we are told we are not to CONTINUE to sin, yet you say you do CONTINUOUSLY.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “the Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

You try to tear down Christians, telling them they are continually sinning, even calling them liars it they say they do not. 1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing. Jude 1:20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

Only those Jesus has not yet saved sin continually, for they are not in the Lord.

You call me a sinner and a liar. I will believe what God says about me and not what you say about me.

Christians are perfect and holy.

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.

You can keep your doctrine of sin to yourself.

 

[DHK]

Christians are perfect and holy.

The verses you quoted speak of our standing before Christ. I am a Christian. My standing before Christ may be perfect and holy.

I speak of your practice. In your practice in life, are you perfect, holy, and sinless?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Who are you DHK to judge the servant of another? What is it to you how he leads his personal life before God? All you are doing is setting him up so you can cast stones. I remember such a similiar case in Scripture.

I personally would spend more time casting the sin out of my own life than trying to cast stones in the direction of one that feels they are walking in the light as He is in the light. You might find in the end you have kicked against the pricks.