There’s Still No Economic Case for New Tariffs

[ParticularWife]

Oh, and if we don't have Christian princes, the alternative is Satan.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Elites always control every institution in any society. It's a matter of whether they're friends, or enemies. Pointing out that politicians are self interested is irrelevant. Any institution is. If you don't fill the power vacuum your enemies will. You don't have a third option.
The Roman Empire and European imperialism were great for Christianity, by the way. God often does things in ways that upset Anglo modern sentiments.

I wasn’t discussing politicians… let me quote Cicero as to his definition of them. “ politicians are not born, they are excreted.” To which I agree.

 

[ParticularWife]

I wasn’t discussing politicians… let me quote Cicero as to his definition of them. “ politicians are not born, they are excreted.” To which I agree.

The people who control institutions are often not the visible leadership. This was far less true in the middle ages, where being able to fight wasn't negotiable, and it would be better to have open oligarchs instead of fake democracy. I don't believe in populism or democracy, either as good things or possible, so I really don't care whether politicians actually control anything. I care about whoever does control things not being intensely hostile to the faith and the faithful.
And it's democracy that makes our politicians so useless and mediocre. They used to be much higher quality a couple centuries ago, partly because there was less bureaucracy and no notion that idiots with no property should be allowed to vote.
The purpose of power is not to serve the will of the people. It's to discipline them. I prefer a guild system and town government under aristocratic authority. Women, the poor, other people's employees, non-Christians, and foreign nationals should not be able to vote or hold office in any capacity. This means government will be controlled by rich people and the strong: but it always was.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Elites always control every institution in any society. It's a matter of whether they're friends, or enemies. Pointing out that politicians are self interested is irrelevant. Any institution is. If you don't fill the power vacuum your enemies will. You don't have a third option.
The Roman Empire and European imperialism were great for Christianity, by the way. God often does things in ways that upset Anglo modern sentiments.

I wasn’t discussing politicians… let me quote Cicero as to his definition of them. “ politicians are not born, they are excreted.” To which I agree.

Elites always control every institution in any society. It's a matter of whether they're friends, or enemies. Pointing out that politicians are self interested is irrelevant. Any institution is. If you don't fill the power vacuum your enemies will. You don't have a third option.
The Roman Empire and European imperialism were great for Christianity, by the way. God often does things in ways that upset Anglo modern sentiments.

anglo modern sentiments….do you mean to say greedy white people? If so, that is funny because I’ve seen greedy criminals in every race I’ve encountered and I’ve worked in many places for and with many different race’s & cultures.

 

[Deacon]

As a business negotiator one needs to approach a deal from a position of strength. One uses a variety of tactics to achieve an advantage over their competitors. Threats can be powerful motivators.

Certainly the threat of a tariff motivates other countries to adopt a more accommodating position towards the U. S. Even now, before Trump has been inaugurated, we are seeing power shifts in Canada and Mexico, and even overseas.

It’s a game of chicken, will he or won’t he impose a burdensome tariff? No country wants to be the example.
The unity of Congress is the wildcard.

Rob

 

[ParticularWife]

anglo modern sentiments….do you mean to say greedy white people?

No, I mean modern era hyper individualism, human rights universalism, and egalitarianism. I don't believe in a universal right of self determination or self government, either for individuals or groups. I don't lose sleep at night about the tiny tribes of primitives being forced to submit to a European hegemony on the continent. Forced conversion is impossible, but if you attack our settlement we're going to conquer you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

But you know who I hold in high esteem…. My great grandfather whose name I carry. He worked in mines in the Carpathian Mountains as a boy so he knew how to bust his arse at a very early age as did many of my ancestors. But this guy, Stephan by name made a decision to escape the poverty and dictatorships of Eastern Europe and escaped to America where he promptly got work in a Coal Mine in Pennsylvania. He then learned how to pump water out of those mines and started his own business as a contractor doing just that for all the mine owners. Then the depression hit and he took his money and bought a farm, cattle, equipment, plow horses and raised his family and grandkids on the farm,so now he is a landowner. In doing that he extended the lives of his family, taught them values of sweat hard work and study…he could not have done that in East Europe and I consider that exercising his FREEDOM.

 

[ParticularWife]

As a business negotiator one needs to approach a deal from a position of strength. One uses a variety of tactics to achieve an advantage over their competitors. Threats can be powerful motivators.

Certainly the threat of a tariff motivates other countries to adopt a more accommodating position towards the U. S. Even now, before Trump has been inaugurated, we are seeing power shifts in Canada and Mexico, and even overseas.

It’s a game of chicken, will he or won’t he impose a burdensome tariff? No country wants to be the example.
The unity of Congress is the wildcard.

Rob

I don't think Trump will actually accomplish anything, America is either going to implode, fly apart, or become a right wing Banana Republic at some point. The system itself is unworkable and based on false ideas.
I have no position on whether Trump should threaten to our actually impose tariffs. But I object to the pure laissez-faire hypothetical entity that was used to oppose it by the OP. Using tariffs may just be a way to target internal political enemies, and to shut down globohomo leftist corporations, I'll gladly pay higher prices.

 

[ParticularWife]

y…he could not have done that in East Europe and I consider that exercising his FREEDOM.

Anglo liberalism was only possible by strictly opposing popular government in practice, ensuring the dominance of an ideologically committed Protestant elite. It was maintained the use of local and federal de facto censorship, suppression, and violence against leftists, non Christians and foreigners. It wasn't freedom: it was a particular social system that was erected by people in power, using force to suppress enemies of that system. But the fantasy of popular government and democracy crushed that system.
The irony is, the abstract ideology of freedumb people credit with American growth was actually the cyanide oil that killed what made that possible.
I support Robber Barons who organize coups. I support generals who threaten banks with the army. These are the people who actually made America great. Not a bunch of leftists waxing about some abstract fantasy of liberty.
I really don't take Boomer conservative ideas seriously. I think you have a false impression of American history and how politics actually work. Read Pareto and get back to me. I'm not really interested in other people's political opinions and they don't matter because you have no power.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As a business negotiator one needs to approach a deal from a position of strength. One uses a variety of tactics to achieve an advantage over their competitors. Threats can be powerful motivators.

Certainly the threat of a tariff motivates other countries to adopt a more accommodating position towards the U. S. Even now, before Trump has been inaugurated, we are seeing power shifts in Canada and Mexico, and even overseas.

It’s a game of chicken, will he or won’t he impose a burdensome tariff? No country wants to be the example.
The unity of Congress is the wildcard.

Rob

Well I am not sure I want to roll the dice and play chicken …rather I like the idea of building an unfair advantage into a system then exploiting that advantage, but I see where you are going with this….i don’t want it to backfire however. After one builds in the advantage one must hold strong to it, not woosie out.

 

[ParticularWife]

Well I am not sure I want to roll the dice and play chicken …rather I like the idea of building an unfair advantage into a system then exploiting that advantage, but I see where you are going with this….i don’t want it to backfire however. After one builds in the advantage one must hold strong to it, not woosie out.

You always have an ongoing struggle in politics. Other countries don't go away. International relations is not business, which Trump doesn't seem to understand. And conflict between great powers is inevitable. Simply by existing they threaten each other.
Politics is just warfare with more speeches.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Anglo liberalism was only possible by strictly opposing popular government in practice, ensuring the dominance of an ideologically committed Protestant elite, and the user of local and federal de facto censorship, suppression and violence against leftists, non Christians and foreigners. It wasn't freedom: it was a particular social system that was erected by people in power, using force to suppress enemies of that system. But the fantasy of popular government and democracy crushed that system.
The irony is, the abstract ideology of freedumb people credit with American growth was actually the cyanide oil that killed what made that possible.
I support Robber Barons who organize coups. I support generals who threaten banks with the army. These are the people who actually made America great. Not a bunch of leftists waxing about some abstract fantasy of liberty.
I really don't take Boomer conservative ideas seriously. I think you have a false impression of American history and how politics actually work. Read Pareto and get back to me. I'm not really interested in other people's political opinions and they don't matter because you have no power.

So have you done it, have you shifted your massive weight to supporting the mine owners, the Carnegie corporations shooting workers for striking, etc. See, I am a Baby Boomer,raised in poverty without a father yada yada and I chose to not have allegiance to False Gods, countries, organizations etc rather I make my own choices what direction I take. Therefore I am not torn asunder by world issues. I choose my way calmly. One of my many dictums is, Everything is Organization, Whit and an Eye for Opportunity. And another is negotiate in Cash….nothing better.

 

[ParticularWife]

So have you done it, have you shifted your massive weight to supporting the mine owners, the Carnegie corporations shooting workers for striking, etc. See, I am a Baby Boomer,raised in poverty without a father yada yada and I chose to not have allegiance to False Gods, countries, organizations etc rather I make my own choices what direction I take. Therefore I am not torn asunder by world issues. I choose my way calmly. One of my many dictums is, Everything is Organization, Whit and an Eye for Opportunity. And another is negotiate in Cash….nothing better.

Quietism is what conservatives and Fundamentalists have been trying for years. It's never worked for anyone in history. Also, Christians are obligated to transform society, not hide from it. Politics is part of life, and political reality include corporate punishment and hierarchy, which is part of every successful Christian society in history. Again, go ahead and do nothing, it doesn't matter and changes nothing. I, however, am going to support the right wing dictator. I'll take Cromwell over Rod Dreher any day.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You always have an ongoing struggle in politics. Other countries don't go away. International relations is not business, which Trump doesn't seem to understand. And conflict between great powers is inevitable. Simply by existing they threaten each other.
Politics is just warfare with more speeches.

Poor man, he only has slogans and they always wear out. He is also fast approaching an age where mental acuity is not paramount Musk however, he is a real threat…he has money and one could consider him a power broker…though I have reports he is a Mook ie., an Asperger’s spectrum guy…
Prone to both delusions and fits of rage as well as other erratic behavior.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Quietism is what conservatives and Fundamentalists have been trying for years. It's never worked for anyone in history. Also, Christians are obligated to transform society, not hide from it. Politics is part of life, and political reality include corporate punishment and hierarchy, which is part of every successful Christian society in history. Again, go ahead and do nothing, it doesn't matter and changes nothing. I, however, am going to support the right wing dictator. I'll take Cromwell over Rod Dreher any day.

Cromwell was a piker…LOL. I prefer real leaders.

 

[ParticularWife]

Cromwell was a piker…LOL. I prefer real leaders.

You take what's on offer, not what you want to be on offer. I am against political ideology.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You take what's on offer, not what you want to be on offer. I am against political ideology.

You take what's on offer, not what you want to be on offer. I am against political ideology.

FYI…. I’m a Realist….i don’t accept any positions ideology … ie I fire people who don’t get the job done, not coddle them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You take what's on offer, not what you want to be on offer. I am against political ideology.

Prologue to chaos.

So let me ask you, would you say that CHRIST was an idealist?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Let me print and issue money and I care not who makes the laws"
Mayer Amshel Rothshild

Shalom

Touché… but that didn’t stop the craized Nazis unfortunately..probably put targets on their backs as a source of money. BTW, does that family still hold the material wealth they had prior to WW2?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Touché… but that didn’t stop the craized Nazis unfortunately. BTW, does that family still hold the material wealth they had prior to WW2?

Tariff away. The more the better.

Not if it affects my bottom line adversely.