There are Some Who Believe That a Sinner Does Nothing to be Saved

[Calminian]

unless you are accusing God of being insincere, IF He were to INVITE the whole human race, it is ONLY because He has provided for ALL their sins in the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ. Redemption has been completed for the whole human race, but all will not be saved because all will not accept what the Lord demands. Remember, the Lord COMMANDS that the entire human race REPENTS of their sins (Acts 17:30)

Also, not to overburden you, as quite a few people are engaging you. But can you also offer your understanding of redemption. I believe you make a distinctions between redemption and salvation.

 

[Calminian]

Calvin? Why him? The Bible says so!

But you claimed that even Calvin supported universal redemption. Is that true?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Please read Romans chapter eight and nine and Ephesians chapter one and get back to me.

My friend, I was saved by the grace of our Great God, way back in Feb of 1982. I have read these chapters many many times. Let me know what troubles you about them?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Are you TCassidy?

#41 was a post by him.

He is agreeing with me! Which he normally does not do. And he is Reformed so no bias for what I say

 

[agedman]

"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor. 4:4)

Instead of knocking them for their "blindness" Pray for them!!!

Why?

According to your view, all they need is to repent.

Seems I should pray for them, but force them to repent.

Isn’t that true of their own methods?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

But you claimed that even Calvin supported universal redemption. Is that true?

His own words say so...

 

[Calminian]

His own words say so...

Where? Maybe he did, I don't know. I'd like to see the quote.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Why?

According to your view, all they need is to repent.

Seems I should pray for them, but force them to repent.

Isn’t that true of their own methods?

do you love or hate all sinners? Do you pray that the Lord saves the entire lost race out there? Do you pray, "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"? God is "willing that NONE of the lost world goes to hell, but that ALL repent and accept Jesus as their Personal Saviour and Lord"!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Where? Maybe he did, I don't know. I'd like to see the quote.

see #24 which is to you!

 

[Felipe Rios]

But, the Holy Bible, the Infallible Word of Almighty God, disagrees.

"Come now, and let us REASON together, saith Jehovah: though your SINS be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be WILLING and OBDEIENT, ye shall eat the good of the land: but if ye REFUSE and REBEL, ye shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of Jehovah hath spoken it." (Isaiah 1:18-20)

These same folk wrongly say that sinners do not have a FREE WILL, to CHOOSE or REJECT. And yet here we have the Word of God, that says they are plainly WRONG.

"And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the LORD, CHOOSE this day whom you will SERVE, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 24:15)

"YOU SEARCH the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; and YOU ARE UNWILLING TO COME to me, that ye MAY HAVE LIFE. (John 5:39-40)

The Greek of this last passage, does not allow for, "you cannot will to come", as though some outside force were preventing it. But, "you are not WILLING to come", as in of themselves.

"And Paul and Barnabas spake out boldly, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first be spoken to you. Seeing YOU REJECT IT, and CONSIDER YOURSELVES UNWORTHY of eternal life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." (Acts 13:46)

These Jews of themselves REJECTED the Gospel Message, and thereby deemed THEMSELVES not worthy of eternal life. NOT that God so considered them, as He is not willing that these precious souls are lost forever, but that they REPENT.

You are correct. But the Calvinist will disagree

 

[agedman]

He is agreeing with me! Which he normally does not do. And he is Reformed so no bias for what I say

Because he showed agreement in #41 you did not answer his question in #44?

I, too, hold that the blood was shed for all.

However, that does not mean that I agree that all have equal opportunity rights to be saved.

Nope, that is not the Scriptural view.

“To THEM God gave the empowerment to be His”

Who is the “them” that is the select few of the all?

 

[atpollard]

atpollard, how good do you have to be to save yourself, are you good enough?

100% perfect as God measures perfection (and somehow overcome the Adamic Curse of being born a seed of Adam).

Shortly before I was ready to execute my death by suicide bombing (a final chance to take control of some aspect in my life), I took up the question of Pascals Wager and invested some serious thought into the ‘what if I was wrong’. As an atheist, the statistical odds of god’s existance was vanishingly small based upon the empirical evidence of life to that point, but it was not absolutely zero. So what if I was wrong and death was not simply the end of pain. What if I open my eyes and face the Judgement Seat (I knew of Jesus, I just found the church pablum not credible in the real world). ... My conclusion was that there would be no argument on my part. By even my judgement I belonged in Hell ... surrounded by beings that hated God as much as I did.

So I was saved with no delusions about who chose who. I never sought God ... God reached out and laid claim of me.

My being ‘good enough’ has never entered the picture.

 

[agedman]

You are correct. But the Calvinist will disagree

Sorry that you agree with what is wrong.

Did not the Scriptures state that God blinded them, purposefully kept them from understanding?

What SBG presents is only part of the story in which he can agree, apparently because he doesn’t seem to be agreeable with all presented from the Scriptures on the matter, but obsesses upon only what isconformed to his own bias.

 

[Yeshua1]

do you love or hate all sinners? Do you pray that the Lord saves the entire lost race out there? Do you pray, "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"? God is "willing that NONE of the lost world goes to hell, but that ALL repent and accept Jesus as their Personal Saviour and Lord"!

Either God intended the death of Jesus to secure real salvation for some, or he intended to potentially save all, but still could be none, Which was it?

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry that you agree with what is wrong.

Did not the Scriptures state that God blinded them, purposefully kept them from understanding?

What SBG presents is only part of the story in which he can agree, apparently because he doesn’t seem to be agreeable with all presented from the Scriptures on the matter, but obsesses upon only what isconformed to his own bias.

Who can remove the veil from our sinful eyes, or make this unbelieving heart come alive anew, save for the Holy Spirit Himself!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Sorry that you agree with what is wrong.

Did not the Scriptures state that God blinded them, purposefully kept them from understanding?

What SBG presents is only part of the story in which he can agree, apparently because he doesn’t seem to be agreeable with all presented from the Scriptures on the matter, but obsesses upon only what isconformed to his own bias.

In John 12:40 we read, "He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their hearts; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, and be converted, and I should heal them"

The quotation of Is. 6:10 in Jn. 12:40 differs from its quotation in Mt. 13:14-15. In Matthew the quotation agrees with the LXX in registering the verbs in the third person plural of the Indicative mode, so that it is the people themselves who perform the actions named; the MT has the verbs in the second person singular of the Imperative mode, so that the prophet is commanded to perform the actions named; in John, by use of third person singular of the Indicative mode, the actions are referred to God.

Look at Acts 28:27, "For the heart of this people is stubborn, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them"

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Who can remove the veil from our sinful eyes, or make this unbelieving heart come alive anew, save for the Holy Spirit Himself!

I think you guys really do not understand those who oppose your "theology". I have said many time to those who would open their eyes, that God the Holy Spirit must first CONVICT the sinner of their sins and unbelief in Jesus, and ONLY THEN can the sinner "come to Jesus" (Read Jesus' own words in John 16:1-10)

 

[TCassidy]

but available to the entire human race

Sufficient for all, efficient only for believers.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Either God intended the death of Jesus to secure real salvation for some, or he intended to potentially save all, but still could be none, Which was it?

The Death of Jesus Christ is not "actual" and it did not actually save anyone, but "potential", in that it is OFFERED to the entire human race.

"Whom God has offered* to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus" (Romans 3:25-26)

* προτίθημι, "offered or provided" (J H Moulton and G Milligan, Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament)

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Sufficient for all, efficient only for believers.

the sins of the whole human race have not been "removed", or else they would ALL be saved. This is only done upon "repentance and faith" in the Lord Jesus Christ. But it is nonetheless available for ALL