There are three views of the Trinity.

[37818]

Infinite possibility. Persons is still a limit with our human understanding of what a person is. We are body, soul, and spirit. The image of the three persons. There are also 3 basic dimensions. That is why I pointed out the Trinity is God manifested in this reality. We know nothing of God outside of creation.

Are there really three distinct Persons who are the one Yahweh?

 

[JesusFan]

Are there really three distinct Persons who are the one Yahweh?

Per the bible, yes!

 

[timtofly]

Are there really three distinct Persons who are the one Yahweh?

They are distinct, very much so.

Person is the accepted word used.

Is the word "being" any better than person? God told Moses He was "I am". That is the proclamation of being. Technically God is all there is. Creation is only sustained because of God. The Holy Spirit as existing in everyone, would "be" distinct yet in billions of instances. Is that billions of Holy Spirit, or one Holy Spirit? If God is defined as several different "omni", is that distinct or everything? Creation is singular, yet consists of individual distinct points of a very large finite number.

Why is there a problem with God being a set of 3 distinct persons?

 

[37818]

Why is there a problem with God being a set of 3 distinct persons?

There isn't except by those who deny that Biblical truth.

 

[JamesL]

Are there really three distinct Persons who are the one Yahweh?

No

"Person" is the absolute worst ever.
And the Bible doesn't even hint at "3 Persons"

Ask anybody you want - what is a person?
Nor asking what is 3 Persons, just tell me what ONE Person is. After you define Person, then I'll tell you if I think there are 3 of them.

Guaranteed, if you get any answer, it's gonna be answers like "individual, distinct being"

I'm telling the truth, you need to get them to commit to what ONE Person is before you entertain the idea of 3

 

[Guido]

My thought would be that once begotten the physical would always exist as seen after the resurrection. Instead of pre-incarnate which raises way more questions than answers, go with post incarnate.

It sure seems to work for the trib/second coming people. It works for post millennials.

But it sure makes more sense logically that those usages.

Pre-incarnate is literally nothing but sure sounds good. At least with pre trib or pre mill, one has the post incarnate Christ coming back in perfectly good shape.

The point though in all seriousness is that as a human 100%, Jesus had to be begotten. This just seems to be a new twist on the divinity or humanity of the Son. Jesus would not be human if He were not begotten. As God, it does not matter. But even Jesus claims:

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

If Jesus existed as a human this has to literally apply to Him. The point is that both happened in the womb for Jesus. Jesus did not have to be "born again".

We have accomplished the water/flesh part. Many have accomplished the born of the Spirit part. Yet we are still a work in progress.

Jesus went through death and Resurrection.

Any one claiming Jesus is not begotten, is denying Jesus is human, and did not spend time in the womb. And Jesus said all have to do both to exist. Jesus did literally exist, so was literally begotten, not just figuratively or as a shadow or type.

Humanity is the shadow or type. The literal image of God. That is until Adam disobeyed, and now we are a shadow of what once was. We are dead physically. We are separated from our spirit. We are only a soul in a dead body. Quickened by the Spirit to be barely adopted into God's family. Would you adopt a dead child and pretend to raise it to life?

The question should be are we begotten prior to death and resurrection.

I am not saying the post incarnate, resurrection state made Jesus more a son of God. I am just saying it makes more sense to have a literal Son that had a resurrection body, even if people fail to see the Son can exist outside of time just as easily as God. If the Trinity does not exist outside of time, then perhaps that is a totally different animal to argue over. Is the Trinity bound by the rules of creation? If not, then the Son has always existed in a resurrection body, at the same time as being begotten at one point in time. Reality does not apply to God, but to a human birth. But to make sense to the Hebrews the Son was called the Word.

Also, translations based on the CT say, "one and only" while translations based on the TR and MT usually say "only begotton" as far as I know.

 

[JesusFan]

No

"Person" is the absolute worst ever.
And the Bible doesn't even hint at "3 Persons"

Ask anybody you want - what is a person?
Nor asking what is 3 Persons, just tell me what ONE Person is. After you define Person, then I'll tell you if I think there are 3 of them.

Guaranteed, if you get any answer, it's gonna be answers like "individual, distinct being"

I'm telling the truth, you need to get them to commit to what ONE Person is before you entertain the idea of 3

Someone who can act, think, speak on their own, are individuals!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I wonder what you wise brothers make of Psalms 2:7.
I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, "You are My Son, today I have begotten you."'

 

[37818]

I wonder what you wise brothers make of Psalms 2:7.
I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, "You are My Son, today I have begotten you."'

It is the prophecy of the bodily resurrection of the incarnate Son of God, per Acts of the Apostles 13:33.

 

[robycop3]

The story of Jesus' baptism confirms that the Holy Trinity are 3 separate Personages. Jesus was physically there, of course, the Holy Spirit appeared in the form of a dove, and Yahweh's voice thundered from heaven, "This is My beloved Son...".

 

[JamesL]

It is the prophecy of the bodily resurrection of the incarnate Son of God, per Acts of the Apostles 13:33.

Because it was by His resurrection that His suffering was deemed complete and sufficient.

His Sonship was a result of His maturity

Rom 1:4
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

 

[JamesL]

Someone who can act, think, speak on their own, are individuals!

With 3 individuals, I'd reject your understanding of Trinity.

 

[JesusFan]

Because it was by His resurrection that His suffering was deemed complete and sufficient.

His Sonship was a result of His maturity

Rom 1:4
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Jesus was always God in human flesh, correct?

 

[JamesL]

Jesus was always God in human flesh, correct?

I'm not fond of 2 words you chose - was & always

Jesus "IS" not "WAS"
He said "before Abraham was, I AM"

Not sure what you mean by always.
That word may not fit well with Him, depending on what you're trying to say. God in human flesh before His incarnation? No. So it's not always.

The Word of God has always been, but did not "become" Jesus until the incarnation

 

[37818]

His Sonship was a result of His maturity

That is one of the three views. But I hold He was always the Son, per John 1:18. Also Proverbs 30:4.

 

[JesusFan]

I'm not fond of 2 words you chose - was & always

Jesus "IS" not "WAS"
He said "before Abraham was, I AM"

Not sure what you mean by always.
That word may not fit well with Him, depending on what you're trying to say. God in human flesh before His incarnation? No. So it's not always.

The Word of God has always been, but did not "become" Jesus until the incarnation

He eternally existed as the Second person of the trinity!

 

[timtofly]

That is one of the three views. But I hold He was always the Son, per John 1:18. Also Proverbs 30:4.

So he just showed up one day and lied about Mary and Joseph?

He was always the begotten Son, because he came through the proper channel of human birth as a begotten Son. That is how he is 100% human. He did not create a 30 year old human body, and call than "being human". Jesus was not a separate creation. Jesus was the begotten Son. After the Resurrection and ascension Jesus was eternally the begotten Son. Jesus was eternally the Word before conception. Jesus was the begotten human Son for around 33 years. Jesus never stopped being the Word. He just took on human flesh in the womb.

 

[37818]

So he just showed up one day and lied about Mary and Joseph?

Where do you get that idea?!

He was always the begotten Son, because he came through the proper channel of human birth as a begotten Son. That is how he is 100% human. He did not create a 30 year old human body, and call than "being human". Jesus was not a separate creation. Jesus was the begotten Son. After the Resurrection and ascension Jesus was eternally the begotten Son. Jesus was eternally the Word before conception. Jesus was the begotten human Son for around 33 years. Jesus never stopped being the Word. He just took on human flesh in the womb

You can believe however you want. You are wrong on a number of issues. Which is not the topic of this thread. Start your own thread.

 

[JamesL]

He eternally existed

No argument here

as the Second person of the trinity!

Says no scripture anywhere

 

[percho]

Does the following verses hold any truth relative to the one who would be called the Son of the Most High and or the Son of the Highest who was named Jesus. Luke 1:31,32

Is the following the absolute truth?
Romans 6:9 YLT knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship;
Acts 13:34 YLT 'And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David;

Was Jesus dead, Gen 2:17 dying thou dost die, thou shall surely die, DEAD for three days and three nights?

Alive subject to death and corruption, DEAD, raised out of the dead, death hath no more dominion over him, did not see corruption and no more to return to corruption?

To my knowledge Jesus the Christ born of the virgin Mary and him alone, to date, has experienced this;
because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit, 1 Peter 3:18 YLT

Does the following describe the exact same action for Larry, Curly and Mo?
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11 YLT
Does that take place in a moment in the twinkling of an eye? Does it take place when the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God?

Does anyone believe God, sent his Son, μονογενῆ From μόνος (G3441) and γίνομαι (G1096) J 3:16 γενόμενον G1096? Gal 4:4 ἐκ γυναικός Out of woman? [ἐν αὐτῇ in her] γεννηθὲν begotten G1080, From a variation of γένος (G1085) From γίνομαι (G1096) Matt 1:20

in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, Heb 1:2,3