There is no strong case for a 7 year tribulation

[Binyamin7]

Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.

Daniel 9:27a has historically been considered a Messianic prophecy and NOT a prophecy about the Antichrist.

Let me show you a anmplified commentary type translation of what Daniel 9:27a could mean:

"And he [Messiah] shall confirm a covenant with MANY [Gentiles and the whole world now able to receive the Kingdom and not primarily Jews] for one week [7 years], but in the middle of the week [about 3.5 year years, the approx length of Jesus ministry] He [Jesus] shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [because He is the perfect sacrifice so no more bulls or goats are needed. Hence the torn veil in the temple, Hebrew 9:12].

In fact this was the understood meaning for most of Christian history up until more recently. And there is no other passage that tells us we get some magical 3.5 years of peace after the antichrist comes into power before the Mark of the Beast. That just looks to be a false hope and a lie to me.

 

[Alan Gross]

Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.

Daniel 9:27a has historically been considered a Messianic prophecy and NOT a prophecy about the Antichrist.

Let me show you a anmplified commentary type translation of what Daniel 9:27a could mean:

"And he [Messiah] shall confirm a covenant with MANY [Gentiles and the whole world now able to receive the Kingdom and not primarily Jews] for one week [7 years], but in the middle of the week [about 3.5 year years, the approx length of Jesus ministry] He [Jesus] shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [because He is the perfect sacrifice so no more bulls or goats are needed. Hence the torn veil in the temple, Hebrew 9:12].

In fact this was the understood meaning for most of Christian history up until more recently. And there is no other passage that tells us we get some magical 3.5 years of peace after the antichrist comes into power before the Mark of the Beast. That just looks to be a false hope and a lie to me.

It's apostasy.

All the 'mill' &/or 'trib' schemes are of the Devil.

Nothing is TAUGHT, elsewhere.

The TEACHING portions of The New Testament tEACH that Jesus is Coming Again, without anything in between that A.) says nothing applies to us because it is all in the future, or B.) says nothing applies to us because it all in the past.

Give Chriatian children a break.

They are more wise to Satan than those two tricks.

Jesus is RETURNING any second, according to the Didactic Gospels and New Testament Books, other than Revelation, ( for these examples, because it is more symbolic.)

Here are 66 verses on The Imminent Return of Jesus, (with no 'mill'/ 'trib' fantasies imagined from misinterpreted Prophetic Language).

Anyone who adds in some 'mill'/ 'trib' tomfoolery has another problem.

9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.

...

This article sheds light on Matthew 24.

This is The DIVINE INTERPRETATION>

There is only ONE "Interpretation" of each verse, in The Bible.

9.0.18a:> NT: REVELATION 21:9; SATAN SOLD: “The Pre-Mil/ Rapture” Trap to The Candlestick’s Angles in Jesus’ Right Hand and SOME of HIS BRIDE BOUGHT IT.

 

[37818]

All the 'mill' &/or 'trib' schemes are of the Devil.

An over simplification to simply blame the Devil. There are a lot teaches that are not true that Christains believe and disagree on. Secondary issues as they are excused for believing in them.

 

[37818]

It's apostasy.

All the 'mill' &/or 'trib' schemes are of the Devil.

Nothing is TAUGHT, elsewhere.

The TEACHING portions of The New Testament tEACH that Jesus is Coming Again, without anything in between that A.) says nothing applies to us because it is all in the future, or B.) says nothing applies to us because it all in the past.

Give Chriatian children a break.

They are more wise to Satan than those two tricks.

Jesus is RETURNING any second, according to the Didactic Gospels and New Testament Books, other than Revelation, ( for these examples, because it is more symbolic.)

Here are 66 verses on The Imminent Return of Jesus, (with no 'mill'/ 'trib' fantasies imagined from misinterpreted Prophetic Language).

Anyone who adds in some 'mill'/ 'trib' tomfoolery has another problem.

9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.

...

This article sheds light on Matthew 24.

This is The DIVINE INTERPRETATION>

There is only ONE "Interpretation" of each verse, in The Bible.

9.0.18a:> NT: REVELATION 21:9; SATAN SOLD: “The Pre-Mil/ Rapture” Trap to The Candlestick’s Angles in Jesus’ Right Hand and SOME of HIS BRIDE BOUGHT IT.

Is a rant to justify the denial of Revelation 20:4-6.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.

Daniel 9:27a has historically been considered a Messianic prophecy and NOT a prophecy about the Antichrist.

Let me show you a anmplified commentary type translation of what Daniel 9:27a could mean:

"And he [Messiah] shall confirm a covenant with MANY [Gentiles and the whole world now able to receive the Kingdom and not primarily Jews] for one week [7 years], but in the middle of the week [about 3.5 year years, the approx length of Jesus ministry] He [Jesus] shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [because He is the perfect sacrifice so no more bulls or goats are needed. Hence the torn veil in the temple, Hebrew 9:12].

In fact this was the understood meaning for most of Christian history up until more recently. And there is no other passage that tells us we get some magical 3.5 years of peace after the antichrist comes into power before the Mark of the Beast. That just looks to be a false hope and a lie to me.

Strong words, maybe harsh words, to call an opposing view false hope and a lie. Now, I agree that the time of Jacob's troubles are not clearly defined in length by scripture, but please be careful as to your word choice. Conversations can be pretty harsh as it is here.

 

[church mouse guy]

"The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

 

[Steven Yeadon]

What of Daniel 12:11-12? We are told of 1290 and 1335 days. It is argued this prophecy already came to pass, but that ignores the context of Daniel 12, which is the time before the resurrection.

 

[church mouse guy]

Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.

Daniel 9:27a has historically been considered a Messianic prophecy and NOT a prophecy about the Antichrist.

Let me show you a anmplified commentary type translation of what Daniel 9:27a could mean:

"And he [Messiah] shall confirm a covenant with MANY [Gentiles and the whole world now able to receive the Kingdom and not primarily Jews] for one week [7 years], but in the middle of the week [about 3.5 year years, the approx length of Jesus ministry] He [Jesus] shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering [because He is the perfect sacrifice so no more bulls or goats are needed. Hence the torn veil in the temple, Hebrew 9:12].

In fact this was the understood meaning for most of Christian history up until more recently. And there is no other passage that tells us we get some magical 3.5 years of peace after the antichrist comes into power before the Mark of the Beast. That just looks to be a false hope and a lie to me.

Well, the Sermon on the Mount is only mentioned once (in Matthew), so....

 

[Alan Gross]

An over simplification to simply blame the Devil. There are a lot teaches that are not true that Christains believe and disagree on. Secondary issues as they are excused for believing in them.

I went from calling all 'mill'/ 'trib' craziness 'novice', to 'aposticy', to 'of the devil's and following your OP sentiment and adding, "no case", I have to stick with all these.

I appreciate you thought about people disagreeing.

This excludes a lot of lost people vs The Bible and Bible teachers, though.

This is novice, apostate, Saved Bible teachers that are being fooled and used of the Devil.

There are no counter-arguments for The Bible Teaching that are Divine Interpretations, with the illiteracy involved.

Seven Spirits are One Holy Spirit.

Seven churches have One Letter written to them.

Seven Visions are One Composite Revelation.

Show me someone who will not study Or Consider The Divine Hermeneutic and Structure of the Seven Visions all covering The church age and I'll show you a novice, apostate, used of the devil.

The idea of 'people disagree' is invalid. They Will NOT place themselves under the Teaching of God's Eternal Word, soberly, fasting, seeking God On Their Face.

They are novices, apostates, and of the devil, in their End Time obliviousness.

You can start you list with every commentator and preacher you want.

They either back off their fleshly pride and shut up and listen to God or shut up at The Judgment.

There is One Divine Interpretations to every verse in the Bible.

And they all Glorify God.

 

[Alan Gross]

Is a rant to justify the denial of Revelation 20:4-6.

The denial of the Bible is not my thing.

The Final Judgment is described in Revelation 20:4-6, just as The Final Judgment is described in each of the other 6 Visions, in The Book of Revelation.

The Final Judgment and Last Battle are also described in several other places in The Bible.

How many Final Judgments are there?

20?

Start with that question.

The preachers who teach Jesus Swiping up and down, Coming and Going, all over Creation look as stupid to each other, with hundreds of scanerios, as they do to the lost World.

No one knows what they believe, including themselves.

The End of The World in the First Vision of John on Patmos is in Revelation 1:7.

John's mention of Jesus Having Washed us in His Own Blood is a reference to His First Advent.

The First Vision of Revelation 1 to 3, covers the church age, between Jesus' First Advent, when He Washed us in His Own Blood, until His Second Advent, when Jesus Comes Again, One Time, in Revelation 1:4.

The Second Vision begins with Jesus Acsention to The Throne at the End of His First Advent.

It also described The One and Only Second Advent.

All seven Visions do.

The rants come and are the fear Satan puts in Preachers hearts, to not Face Jesus Coming, as A Spiritual Fact of Present History.

I better call my admonitions, "hellfire and brimstone".

It's Coming to everywhere in The World, after The Saints are Caught Up in the Air.

It's Over.

Jesus is Coming.

Maybe, today.

 

[37818]

I went from calling all 'mill'/ 'trib' craziness 'novice', to 'aposticy', to 'of the devil's and following your OP sentiment and adding, "no case", I have to stick with all these.

I appreciate you thought about people disagreeing.

This excludes a lot of lost people vs The Bible and Bible teachers, though.

This is novice, apostate, Saved Bible teachers that are being fooled and used of the Devil.

There are no counter-arguments for The Bible Teaching that are Divine Interpretations, with the illiteracy involved.

Seven Spirits are One Holy Spirit.

Seven churches have One Letter written to them.

Seven Visions are One Composite Revelation.

Show me someone who will not study Or Consider The Divine Hermeneutic and Structure of the Seven Visions all covering The church age and I'll show you a novice, apostate, used of the devil.

The idea of 'people disagree' is invalid. They Will NOT place themselves under the Teaching of God's Eternal Word, soberly, fasting, seeking God On Their Face.

They are novices, apostates, and of the devil, in their End Time obliviousness.

You can start you list with every commentator and preacher you want.

They either back off their fleshly pride and shut up and listen to God or shut up at The Judgment.

There is One Divine Interpretations to every verse in the Bible.

And they all Glorify God.

You just put a label on it. What you are doing is just another form of an ad hominem even if your assessment is true.

There are a number of points of disagreement. And all the differing views cannot be true.

This thread is making the argument that the word of God doees not teach the tribulation to be 7 years. That does not affect my pre-mill post-trib pre-wrath rapture view.

Now what interests me is what specificly caused you to change your view to amill. Something you thought was true was not.

 

[37818]

The denial of the Bible is not my thing.

The Final Judgment is described in Revelation 20:4-6, just as The Final Judgment is described in each of the other 6 Visions, in The Book of Revelation.

The Final Judgment and Last Battle are also described in several other places in The Bible.

How many Final Judgments are there?

20?

Start with that question.

The preachers who teach Jesus Swiping up and down, Coming and Going, all over Creation look as stupid to each other, with hundreds of scanerios, as they do to the lost World.

No one knows what they believe, including themselves.

The End of The World in the First Vision of John on Patmos is in Revelation 1:7.

John's mention of Jesus Having Washed us in His Own Blood is a reference to His First Advent.

The First Vision of Revelation 1 to 3, covers the church age, between Jesus' First Advent, when He Washed us in His Own Blood, until His Second Advent, when Jesus Comes Again, One Time, in Revelation 1:4.

The Second Vision begins with Jesus Acsention to The Throne at the End of His First Advent.

It also described The One and Only Second Advent.

All seven Visions do.

The rants come and are the fear Satan puts in Preachers hearts, to not Face Jesus Coming, as A Spiritual Fact of Present History.

I better call my admonitions, "hellfire and brimstone".

It's Coming to everywhere in The World, after The Saints are Caught Up in the Air.

It's Over.

Jesus is Coming.

Maybe, today.

Christ's second appearing, Hebrews 9:28 is not when, but how, Matthew 24:27.

 

[Dave G]

Where do we see a 7 year tribulation besides Daniel 9:27? No where. 3.5 years is mentioned 8 times.

I don't see a 7 year tribulation in Daniel 9.

I see a 70th "week" of years.
But I also see a tribulation period that follows the man of perdition who declares himself as God, sits in the temple of God and declares himself to be God...
Followed by 42 months ( Revelation 13:5 ) of hell on earth:

Matthew 24
Mark 13.
Revelation.

 

[Binyamin7]

To be clear, I do believe in a pretrib rapture, as some people will escape the wrath to come- that's Luke 21:36 and Rev 3:10.

However the trib is a 42 month period and NOT a 7 year period.

There does not need to be a physical temple rebuilt, although I would not exclude it. 2 Thess 2:4's "temple" can also be interpreted as "shrine" as it was in Acts 19:24. It could be a mosque, the vatican, or other religious building.

 

[37818]

To be clear, I do believe in a pretrib rapture, as some people will escape the wrath to come- . . .

FYI the post-trib pre-wrath view point also believes 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Revelation 6:12-17, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

 

[church mouse guy]

To be clear, I do believe in a pretrib rapture, as some people will escape the wrath to come- that's Luke 21:36 and Rev 3:10.

However the trib is a 42 month period and NOT a 7 year period.

There does not need to be a physical temple rebuilt, although I would not exclude it. 2 Thess 2:4's "temple" can also be interpreted as "shrine" as it was in Acts 19:24. It could be a mosque, the vatican, or other religious building.

A distinction without a difference at best. The Anti-Christ reigns for 7 years but does not defile the third Temple until halfway into his reign. He does have to consolidate his power at the beginning apparently. The Second Advent is called the Blessed Hope because those who will die at the hands of the Anti-Christ and those who will evade the Anti-Christ will be looking for Jesus to rescue them by his return at the end of the seven years.

 

[Binyamin7]

A distinction without a difference at best. The Anti-Christ reigns for 7 years but does not defile the third Temple until halfway into his reign. He does have to consolidate his power at the beginning apparently. The Second Advent is called the Blessed Hope because those who will die at the hands of the Anti-Christ and those who will evade the Anti-Christ will be looking for Jesus to rescue them by his return at the end of the seven years.

Yea so you can't support your view with Scripture very well though. I am well aware of the newly invented evangelical interpretation of Daniel's 70th week.

 

[church mouse guy]

Yea so you can't support your view with Scripture very well though. I am well aware of the newly invented evangelical interpretation of Daniel's 70th week.

The viewpoint I expressed is 2,000 years old. The second advent is called the Blessed Hope in Scripture. You said that only Daniel said it was a week. I said that only Matthew said that there was a Sermon on the Mount. You did not reply. You said the Tribulation was only 3 1/2 years. I said that the total time was 7 years in power. You disagree.

 

[Dave G]

The Anti-Christ reigns for 7 years but does not defile the third Temple until halfway into his reign.

I agree.

" Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” ( Daniel 9:27 ).

No covenant was confirmed with many before hand when Titus destroyed the second Temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., so I see that these events have yet to happen.
But, I also see a 3.5 year tribulation which starts in the middle of the "week" with the abomination of desolation.
Again, Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I agree.

" Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” ( Daniel 9:27 ).

No covenant was confirmed with many before hand when Titus destroyed the second Temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., so I see that these events have yet to happen.
But, I also see a 3.5 year tribulation which starts in the middle of the "week" with the abomination of desolation.
Again, Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

Quite informative. How long does the Antichrist reign before making the covenant is my question.