Featured Thoughts on, Propitiation.

Sometimes it is hard to understand the posts of others. For example who denies that 1 John 2:2 speaks of propitiation? The verse says Christ is our propitiation. But what does that mean? It means Christ is our means of salvation. If a person is not "in" the propitiatory shelter of Christ, they are children of wrath. If people are transferred into Christ, they enter the propitiatory shelter of Christ, and are no longer children of wrath.

If we are not "in Christ" we are not in a propitious situation, facing the wrath of God. But if we are "in Christ" the situation is propitious, favorable, we are justified and united with God, our sins are forgiven.

I object to folks providing a special definition of a word, when the dictionary meaning works. Christ is the means of our salvation, He is the propitiation not only for us but also for the whole world. Everyone who is transferred into His shelter is saved, and everyone not in Christ is unsaved.

 

No, because "propitiation" provides satisfation of both a negative and positive demand of the Law. Positve in satisfying the righteousness demanded to be justified by the Law. Negative in satisfying the condemnation demanded to be justified by the law (Rom. 4:6-8).

 

More specifically it is the life and death of Christ that is our propitiation, as one without the other provides no salvation.

 

No, Christ is our propitiation. 1 John 2:2. The effort to deny this obvious truth by both Calvinists and non-Calvinists is amazing.

To repeat, Christ is our propitiation, our means of salvation. All this effort to read the meanings of English words back into the Greek is nonsense. Not spiritually "in Christ" unsaved, "in Christ" saved. We receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death on the cross when God spiritually transfers us into Christ, and not before. God's wrath was not turned away from any sinner, any one who by nature is a child of wrath, until the sinner undergoes the circumcision of Christ.

 

Christ is MEANINGLESS apart from His life and death, and his life and death are MEANINGLESS if they don't satisfy God righteous demands against sin and sinners.

What you have done is EMPTY the term "Christ" of propitiation and made him simply an ABSTRACT term void of any significance.

 

No, our disagreement is that you are unwilling (not unable) to accept that Christ is our propitiation. Did I say Christ is only our propitiation and nothing more? Nope. Why find fault where none exists?

To repeat, Christ is our propitiation or means of salvation.

My NASB95 reads, " And He Himself is the propitiation from our sins...." The verse says Christ is our propitiation. But what does that mean? It means Christ is our means of salvation. If a person is not "in" the propitiatory shelter of Christ, they are children of wrath. If people are transferred into Christ, they enter the propitiatory shelter of Christ, and are no longer children of wrath.

The gospel is simple and straightforward.

 

Your gospel is words EMPTY of meaning and the "Christ" you say is the "means of salvation" is a "Christ" that saves no one, BECAUSE the propitiation of scripture is Christ SATISFYING the full demands of the Law for righteousness and against sin. You have a "propitiation" that satisfies NOTHING for NNE.

 

The term is used for the "mercy" lid on the ark. Think about what the ark contained. Think what had to be applied to the "mercy" lid? The "blood" of the animal represents the life of a "spotless" animal - type of the sinless life of Christ. The mercy seat is where God's wrath is satisfied by a sinless life that has been put to death. Hence, both death and life are represented by the blood in connection with the law of God contained within the ark and the "manna" contained within the ark, and the rod that budded contained in the ark. Hence, the "mercy" seat conveys the totality of that truth.

Any definition of "propitiation" that does not convey the totality of that truth is "another Jesus" and "another gospel."

 

Yes! that is what the death of a "lamb without spot or blemish" is all about.

 

Look at what I said in context! I explained the full context of the mercy seat with its contents and the kind of animal necessary all of which is a type of Christ and his satisfaction of all those demands.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: - Isa. 53:11

Interpret this verse by the preceding 10 verses rather than merely by this text jerked out of context or some peice meal aspect of this verse.

The resurrection was proof, vindication, justification that his offering had satisfied God and sin, death and hell were overcome. If Christ had remained in the grave UNDER DEATH, then his atonement would not have satisfied God as death STILL REIGNED over him and thus over all He represented.

 

1) Did I say "propitiation" is as broad as "salvation?" Nope. What did I say? Propitiation provides the means of salvation.

2) Did I say 1 John 2:2 was talking about our atoning sacrifice? Nope. What did I say. Christ is our propitiation.

3) Is the word translated reconciliation the same Greek word as the one translated "propitiation?" Nope. Propitiation is the means of salvation, reconciliation is the result of salvation.

4) Not sure what Greek word you claim means atoning sacrifice? Oops, now I found it. You switched versions, and are using the NIV or other Calvinistic translation to redefine propitiation as atoning sacrifice. Not what it means.

Folks, 1 John 2:2 says Christ is our propitiation, or means of salvation. If we are not "in Christ" we are not "in the propitiatory shelter of Christ." We are not in a propitious or favorable place. If God transfers us into Christ, then we are in the propitiatory shelter of Christ, a very propitious place. So simple a child could understand it.

 

According to who?

 

The Greek term "hilastrion" is translated "propitiation" in Rom. 3:25 and this exact form is found only one other place in the New Testament where it is translated "mercy seat" in Hebrews 9:5. In 1 Jn. 2:2 this is not the term used but rather "hilasmos."

Christ is the mercy seat ONLY in the sense of the typology being expressed by the mercy seat on the day of atonement. It is what APPEASES or SATISFIES God's wrath against sin and God's righteous demands. On the day of the atonement is expressed by the typology of the contents under the "mercy seat" and what is placed upon the "mercy seat". It is the "blood" of a lamb without spot or blemish, thus typical of a SINLESS LIFE that is placed UPON the mercy seat on the day of atonement. UNDER the mercy seat is the law of Moses, the manna in a jar and Aaron's rod that budded. Typically, these things also represent Christ as the WHOLE ARK represents Christ as Christ fulfilled the law by HIS LIFE. He gave HIS LIFE as God gave MANNA to sustain the physical life of Israel. His resurrection out of death is typified by the rod that budded. It is this WHOLE PICTURE of the "mercy seat" on the day of atonement that actually SATISFIES God's righteousness and wrath against His people. It is not the "means of salvation" but is that actual obtaining of salvation in the objective sense by the Person and work of Christ which is ALREADY FINISHED and God is already SATISFIED objectively.

 

No matter how often Calvinists redefine the meanings of words, the truth of God's message cannot be denied.

Christ is our propitiation, our means of salvation. Not in Christ, not saved; in Christ - saved! We go from having wrath stored up against us, to being forgiven.

Do the lexicons indicate propitiation means "atoning sacrifice?" Nope

Strong's and Thayer's - the means of appeasing, a propitiation​

I am reminded of the old story of a student taking a theology class. He said he was still confused, but he was confused on a higher level.