Featured Timing of the Rapture

Then the throne in verse 31 is on the earth, because you cannot have it both ways. It cannot be about the earth, and then suddenly switch to only about heaven. Besides, Jesus ruling is not a metaphor. Jesus sitting in judgment is not a metaphor. Angels are not metaphors. Nations are not metaphors. Verse 31 is not a parable.

 

And so we disagree. Happy Thanksgiving

peace to you

 

I doubt you will ever get an Amil to agree there is a 3 part order to Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 15. They probably won't even accept it as 1,000 years until those future 1,000 years are over. They will be skeptical for 1,000 years probably as punishment.

One point Paul made that many keep changing to resurrection wrongly though is being made alive. Being made alive is not about a resurrection at all especially if one is not physically dead.

The other point is that Paul never stated 2,000 years between Christ the firstfruits, and Christ at His coming, so why would Paul mention, another 1,000 years until the end? Paul was not setting dates, but Paul was giving an order to when all would be made alive.

The only resurrection happened at the Cross, when those in Abraham's bosom were resurrected with eternal life to now enjoy Paradise. Since the Cross, for the last 1993 years, being made alive is an ongoing phenomenon, once a redeemed soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh, to enter God's permanent incorruptible physical body in Paradise. That is not a resurrection, because the second birth already makes us alive. That is a translation from death to life.

The rapture is not a resurrection theoretically, but is also a translation out of death to life. There are no dead people living in Adam's dead corruptible flesh in the Millennium. That is the whole point of it being the Day of the Lord.

When the dead stand before the GWT it is not a resurrection. They are still the dead. Metaphorically they are dumped out of Death, and sheol, not resurrected. But if they do experience a resurrection, it is to eternal life, and they will not be tossed into the LOF. But this event happens outside of creation. Only the GWT remains and the LOF. To them, that judgment may last years, who knows? It certainly will not effect the immediate realization of those already made alive, between one creation and the next. Those alive either on the earth or in heaven will not even notice the change between the old reality and the new reality. I am not sure why any one would place those already made alive at that event in Revelation 20:11-15.

They certainly don't understand the order as given by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. The OT redeemed were made alive as the firstfruits (plural), in Christ at the Cross. All are being made alive constantly, because Paul points out the living can never proceed those who have physically died. At the Second Coming, those physically alive on the earth will be made alive, so it is not about being physically resurrected from the dust. It is about being made alive out of Adam's physical body.

But the last thing made alive and presented to God is creation itself. Yes, that creation could be changed instantly at the Second Coming, and will be after all the mess is cleaned up, but there are still events between the Second Coming and even the Day of the Lord that may or may not happen. And Paul literally gives more thought about the time between the Second Coming and the end, than between the Cross and the Second Coming.

Yes, Jesus is reigning now, but will reign on earth after the Second Coming as well. That is why Amil will constantly deny Paul's order as given. They deny that Jesus changes the geographical structure of the ME and literally the entire earth at the Second Coming. They deny Jesus sits on a throne in a Temple in Jerusalem after the Second Coming. They deny it is the temple and throne given to Satan 42 months after the Second Coming. Even dispensationalists will deny that as they have the wrong event as the Second Coming, but that is a totally different argument.

The rapture and Second Coming are described in the 5th and 6th Seal. They are not seperate events. They happen rather quickly and decisively. In a twinkling of an eye. Yet the church glorified will be forever burned into the memories of those on earth. Then during the Trumpets and Thunders, Jesus will sit in judgment removing billions of souls from the earth, that is the final harvest. Matthew 25 and Matthew 13 are the Trumpet and Thunder harvest. When the 7th Trumpet sounds all nations will have been made subject to Jesus, in preparation for the winepress of God's wrath. The only humans left will end up dead in that winepress. Then the Day of the Lord can start with the firstfruits of the final harvest.

Not sure why people accept the 12 disciples were firstfruits from the start of Jesus' earthly ministry soon after His baptism years before the Cross, as firstfruits of the NT church, that was to come. Then they cannot see that the 144k are firstfruits at the Second Coming years before the 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as King of the earth, even though Jesus has to gather the full final harvest out of billions as the Second Coming ministry as King.

The first coming was for His death and our salvation. The Second Coming will be for Adam's death, and Jesus' reign over sons of God redeemed from the earth. Adam had 6 days of sin and death. God reserves the 7th Day as a day of rest from sin and the punishment placed on Adam. The earth will be subdued for a thousand years under God's conditions, not Adam's.

 

Not in the 5th seal, ". . . And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. . . ."

 

Dispensationalists struggle with Revelation and its corroborate scripture because they keep trying to force it onto a timeline rather than grasp that John is writing down what he "sees." John is essentially looking at a, for lack of a better example, a "Where's Jesus" (like a Where's Waldo) picture page and he is describing what he sees. Like you do when you go to an art gallery, he kept staring at the image and kept jumping to specific areas and as he looked, he saw even deeper into the image and described what he saw earlier in more detail. It's very similar to what Ezekiel does in Ezekiel 1 when he describes the chariot of God from a distance and then in more detail as he sees more.

John is not giving a timeline when he writes Revelation. John is describing the image he is peering at.

 

Does 1 Cor 15:25 state that Christ must reign somewhere until all enemies are put under his feet? Does v 26 state that the last of the enemies to be put under him is death?

When does verse 23 state those who are Christ's are are made alive and or resurrected relative to V's 21 and 22?

What does, "at his coming and or in his presence," mean?
Is, "at his coming and or in his presence," of 1 Cor 15:23 the same moment in time as spoken of in 1 Thes 4:15-17 The dead in Christ and those which remain alive?

Is it those, "at his coming and or in his presence," and or "the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." that rule with Christ according to Rev 20:4-6?

According to Rev 20:5 before the of the dead are raised and or made alive?

Six simple questions to be answered yes or no or elaborated upon.

Peace to you also and Happy Thanksgiving and Go Dogs (Egg Bowl)

 

Is John like Ezekiel by the Spirit transported into time, that being; Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Was he transported to, The day of the Lord?

 

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

 

I don't understand your question? It reads as though you are trying to make a statement with a question that no one is supposed to answer, but you yourself will not answer either.

You quote from Revelation 1. Do you have a point?

 

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Let's remove chapter and verse

 

Could Rev be written from the concept of the present being the day of the Lord a thousand years?

Write what thou saw before the day of the Lord, what thou see on the day of the Lord and hereafter the day of the Lord.

 

Again, answer your own question. What is your statement of belief? Tell us in plain English what you believe. It will be refreshing when you get to the point.

 

Not sure I have a specific answer of, the present, of Rev., however I do believe V 10 of Rev 1 is speaking of the day of the Lord rather than some Sunday afternoon.

 

Revelation 1:10, " . . . τη κυριακη ημερα . . . ."
Revelation 1:10-11, ". . . I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: . . ."
Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 44:6.

 

You and 37818 need to get together as you both choose to never actually state what you believe. I cannot make heads nor tails of what you two are actually stating.

 

I have stated actually what I believe. At issue are presuppositions and choices of interpretations when there are more than one possible meaning.

There are single passages that solely teach a teaching. Revelation 20:1-7 solely teaches the millennium.

1 Corinthians 15:52 solely teaches there to be "the last trump."

Hebrews 9:28 solely teaches the "second" appearing.

Revelation 20:6 solely teaches the "first resurrection."

Etc.

There are other passages were a teaching occurs more than once.

 

A teaching that occures twice.
Matthew 24:29, ". . . Immediately after the tribulation . . . ."
Mark 13:24, ". . . after that tribulation . . . ."

 

And yet, no one can discern any view from you in the above statement.

 

How many times will the redeemed be glorified? 1? 2? 3?

 

According to Hebrews 9:26-28, Jesus only has two appearances. His first appearance was to die as a sacrifice for the sins of all who believe in His atonement. The second is to return as King.

If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.