Tithe

[drfuss]

AresMan writes:
"There is no Scriptural justification for changing what was clearly commanded
(1) to the people of the nation of Israel
(2) to give tithes of crops (which could be redeemed) and livestock (which could not be redeemed)
(3) to the Levites (blood decendents of Levi), priests (blood Levite descendents of Aaron), and poor
(4) from what was provided by God Himself through nature
(5) from the Promised Land in Canaan
(6) in a ceremonial seven-year cycle
(7) in which people annually ate their own tithes in a ceremonial festival,
(8) gave heap tithes to the Levites and poor every three years,
(9) celebrated a local feast every seventh year
(10) and gave no tithe on the fiftieth year (Jubilee)"

If you want to invoke O.T. tithing requirements, then you should include them all. i.e. only sacrifices of animals and produce. Money was not permitted to be given as a tithe (Duet. 14). You need to install an alter in your church and provide a means for the people to buy the animals and the produce to sacrifice. Remember the money changers in the N.T., that was one of their functions.

When the sacrifices stopped, tithing requirements stopped.

 

[AresMan]

If you want to invoke O.T. tithing requirements, then you should include them all. i.e. only sacrifices of animals and produce. Money was not permitted to be given as a tithe (Duet. 14). You need to install an alter in your church and provide a means for the people to buy the animals and the produce to sacrifice. Remember the money changers in the N.T., that was one of their functions.

Yup. In order actually to obey the Biblical command to tithe, one must follow all of the strict and detailed requirements. The what, the who, the for whom, the when, the where, and the how--all clearly spelled out in the Law.

If you are going to use the argument that "tithing" was "pre-Law," then you still have to consider that
1. Neither what Abraham did nor what Jacob vowed were commanded by God.
2. Abraham's tithe was of the spoils of war to a priest-king.
3. Abraham's tithe was a one-time act.
4. Abraham gave the rest of the spoils to the king of Sodom.
5. Abraham gave nothing from his own wealth.
6. Jacob's vow is ambiguous, and no Scripture indicates what he did nor when, if, or how, he fulfilled it. To whom would Jacob give his "tithe"? The only interpretation that makes logical sense is that his vow was fulfilled in the Levitical priesthood.
7. Hebrews chapter 7 clearly teaches that the Levitical priesthood and the command to tithe was disannulled.

There is nowhere in the Bible where anyone ever tithed monetary income to anyone or anything. There is nowhere in the Bible where Christians were commanded or were shown to give tithes in any form to a church. The practice of giving tithes of money to anything is simply not in the Bible in any nation, dispensation, or covenant of any kind at any time anywhere. It's not there at all. You can give however you want, but there is no command (or any indication of any kind of practice) in the Bible to tithe money to a church. Zero. Nada. All the commonly used verses used to support this myth are easily shown to be out of context simply by showing their context (within the same passage, and with supplemental background cross references).

When the sacrifices stopped, tithing requirements stopped.

The need to sacrifice ceased at the Cross when the veil of the Temple was rent.
The organized practice of sacrifices and tithes ceased when the Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70.

 

[Allan]

The figures are called bank statements! What is your problem?

deleted... not worth addressing his problem.

 

[FBCPastorsWife]

deleted... not worth addressing his problem.

My conclusion as well... Not even worth my time to argue someone with that type of attitude.

 

[StefanM]

I personally tithe, but I don't consider myself bound to it. I do it as a personal discipline.

 

[Tom Butler]

We usually give between 10% and 20% each year. We give more than 10% as a good practice. We give by the year and not by the week with our giving spread throughout the year. We give to our church and to other missions as we feel led. A few years ago, our church had a special financial need and we gave almost 20% to the church that year.
===
I have no problem with others tithing; just so they don't claim that tithing is a scriptural requirement for N.T. Christians.
==
If you want to consider what you give as tithe and offering, that is fine with me. Everything we give we consider to be a freewill offering.

Thanks for the answer. You've come closer to answering my questions than anybody else, so far. I'm a tither, but I have no criticism of the way you deal with the question.

 

[drfuss]

Thanks for the answer. You've come closer to answering my questions than anybody else, so far. I'm a tither, but I have no criticism of the way you deal with the question.

For many years, I believed tithing was a requirement for N.T. Christians because that is what I was taught. A number of years ago, I was studying the book of Duet. (with no Bible study guide). When I got to Duet. 14, I realized something was amiss with what I was always taught. That was when I investigated tithing and found it did not make sense to require N.T. Christians to tithe when the tithe could only be given by sacrificing animals and produce.

I should add here that I had already established a record of giving more that 10%. I continue to give more than 10% because I think it is a good guide for me to follow.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am a Christian, not a Jew, so tithing is not applicable.

I enjoy giving as God blesses

 

[AresMan]

Read the following passages:

Genesis 14
Genesis 28
Leviticus 27
Numbers 18
Numbers 28
Deuteronomy 12
Deuteronomy 14
Deuteronomy 26
2 Chronicles 31
Nehemiah 10-13
Malachi 1-3
Matthew 23
Luke 11
Hebrews 7

then tell me whether Christians are commanded or even suggested that they are to pay tithes of monetary income to a local church.

 

[Benjamin]

I am a Christian, not a Jew, so tithing is not applicable.

I enjoy giving as God blesses

I watched this guy on TV the other day that said first you send him 1,000 bucks and “then” God blesses. You didn’t even have to pay up right now, just give them a call and commit. He even provided testimonies to prove you’d get your wind fall blessings. He even gave scriptures Luke 6:38………..several times………

 

[webdog]

If you want to invoke O.T. tithing requirements, then you should include them all. i.e. only sacrifices of animals and produce. Money was not permitted to be given as a tithe (Duet. 14). You need to install an alter in your church and provide a means for the people to buy the animals and the produce to sacrifice. Remember the money changers in the N.T., that was one of their functions.

Let me throw this out there...could tithing be considered a sin for a believer that knows the what, who's and why's of tithing? Wouldn't this be like me still insisting on an animal sacrifice for a sin I commit...knowing it's not required? It seems like if we pick and choose what laws we want to continue to hold to, this is in violation of Scripture, no?

 

[Allan]

Let me throw this out there...could tithing be considered a sin for a believer that knows the what, who's and why's of tithing? Wouldn't this be like me still insisting on an animal sacrifice for a sin I commit...knowing it's not required? It seems like if we pick and choose what laws we want to continue to hold to, this is in violation of Scripture, no?

Tithing is a spiritual principle not a mandate, but should be done not because we have to but because we have a heart to give.

That is why we should 'give' our tithes. But that aside for a bit.

I haven't seen many, in fact seen but a few who actaully biblically give.

There are example all through the NT of people giving even in their need. At other times giving of themselves even as to death because some where not giving as they should have.

If we truly believe God will supply all our needs according to his riches and glory.
Why do we pray and as God how much to give??

That is the most Faithless and God Dishonoring thing I have heard.
And even worse, others just give without seeking the Lord and what HE desires in and of our giving. Kind of like tiping your waitress/waitor, or tossing to bum on the street some extra cash on hand.

We should be praying: God of what you have given me, Lord what should I keep and trust you will provide in that which appears lacking.

We give to the local church, who gives to other churches out of their (the churches) excess. Not that people should OUT OF 'their' excess give to God.

Look at the widow and the 2 mites. :thumbs:

 

[AresMan]

Tithing is a spiritual principle not a mandate, but should be done not because we have to but because we have a heart to give.

Tithing is neither "spiritual" nor a "principle." It was a specific and detailed ceremonial agricultural "tax" and "welfare" law system for the nation of Israel. There is no legitimate Scriptural reason to derive anything "magical" about the tithe apart from its specific instances in Biblical history. What we erroneously call "tithing" today has zero to do with what actually took place in the Bible.

That is why we should 'give' our tithes. But that aside for a bit.

Tithing has zero to do with Christians or the church. It is not a command, obligation, suggestion, or spiritual threshhold of any kind whatsoever. Giving a tenth of one's net/gross/gross+benefits income to something is simply a matter of preference, equally such as any other amount or percentage.

I haven't seen many, in fact seen but a few who actaully biblically give.

All giving that is (1) done cheerfully and (2) meets needs is Biblical giving.

There are example all through the NT of people giving even in their need. At other times giving of themselves even as to death because some where not giving as they should have.

Yup.

If we truly believe God will supply all our needs according to his riches and glory. [sic]
Why do we pray and as [sic] God how much to give??

Because the Holy Spirit leads? The real question should be "What can I give cheerfully and abundantly that will meet the target need that is neither insufficient nor irresponsible?"

That is the most Faithless and God Dishonoring thing I have heard.
And even worse, others just give without seeking the Lord and what HE desires in and of our giving. Kind of like tiping your waitress/waitor, or tossing to bum on the street some extra cash on hand.

I agree. The comment did not read very well. Please, people, for sake of clarity, make a distinction between the teaching that a so-called "tithe" is required and the actual act of giving a tenth of one's income to something. The former is wrong; the latter is good.

We should be praying: God of what you have given me, Lord what should I keep and trust you will provide in that which appears lacking.

Agree.

We give to the local church, who gives to other churches out of their (the churches) excess. Not that people should OUT OF 'their' excess give to God.

We give to the local church to meet its expenses. We should also give to other things and people where there is need. There is, however, no threshhold for any entity. The local church is not mandated to be a proxy through which all (or any particular amount) must be given.

 

[Tom Butler]

I am a Christian, not a Jew, so tithing is not applicable.

I enjoy giving as God blesses

This raises another question for our posters.

How many of you set aside your gift to the church (or tithe) before you pay the other bills? How many of you see what's left over after bill-paying before you decide what to give?

 

[Steven2006]

This raises another question for our posters.

How many of you set aside your gift to the church (or tithe) before you pay the other bills? How many of you see what's left over after bill-paying before you decide what to give?

Or other questions. Does someone that receives full medical at work pay on what that is worth, compared to someone who has no medical benefits, and pays out his/her monthly premiums out of pocket? Or what about company funded retirements verses saving all on your own? There are all kinds of questions raised with this topic.

 

[Alcott]

How many of you set aside your gift to the church (or tithe) before you pay the other bills?

Probably not many of us. The reason we engage in business is to earn an income to pay the bills. If God really took care of all that, and we needed no income and had none, there would be no [monetary] gift to a church.

How many of you see what's left over after bill-paying before you decide what to give?

Probably most of us... even though churches aren't well known for blowing the whistle against hot check writers. But we still 'see' how much is there before writing a check to any entity; at least I do.

 

[AresMan]

This raises another question for our posters.

How many of you set aside your gift to the church (or tithe) before you pay the other bills? How many of you see what's left over after bill-paying before you decide what to give?

Why does this matter at all? What's the deal? Why must there be some kind of formula/proxy/buffer/order, etc. to the manner in which one must give to meet needs? There is no Scripture that dictates how Christians are to give, except that it be done abundantly and cheerfully. If a brother has a need, give. If the church has a need, give. If a missionary has a need, give. There is no universal Biblical formula for budgeting, proxying, scheduling, ordering, or allocating gifts. It is all of faith from any angle.

Acts 2:44-45 shows how the first church met needs. Those who have give to supply those who need. Simple.

 

[Tom Butler]

I understand about bills that must be paid. I guess what I'm looking for is some sense of priority for giving or tithing. Say, as opposed to some discretionary spending.

My own church at the moment has enough money in the bank to pay this month's bills even if nobody gives a dime during the month. So, since it doesn't have an immediate need for my money, does that mean I can keep it? That I don't have to give at all unless the church needs the money?

Or....

Should be follow Paul's instructions to give as God has prospered us, even if the church doesn't need it at the moment?

Here's another question: Can our giving be considered an act of worship?
If so, does that raise its priority for us?

 

[D28guy]

"Why should we tithe? Do you tithe 10%? Do you tithe at all?"

I have never tithed. I engage in the scriptural form of giving for christians...free will giving.

"But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.

7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work."

Tithing was the form of giving given to the Jews, living under the old covenant.

We are christians, living under the new covenant. New Covenant giving is free will giving.

If someone chooses to give systematically...meaning some percentage (whatever that % might be) out of every paycheck, thats perfectly fine. If that is what they have purposed in their heart.

If someone else purposes in their heart to give whatever God asks them to give at the time of the collection, thats perfectly fine as well.

But I just cringe when I hear Pastors and teachers tell their people that they are obligated to give 10% and they will be "robbing God" if they dont.

RIGHT...BACK...UNDER...THE...LAW...THEY GO. No longer are they giving freely and joyfully and cheerfully, but rather grudgingly, out of obligation, and under compulsion.

Back under the Law...rather than living in the goodness of the Spirit.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Allan]

Tithing is neither "spiritual" nor a "principle." It was a specific and detailed ceremonial agricultural "tax" and "welfare" law system for the nation of Israel. There is no legitimate Scriptural reason to derive anything "magical" about the tithe apart from its specific instances in Biblical history. What we erroneously call "tithing" today has zero to do with what actually took place in the Bible.

Tithing is part of the Law and scripture says "...the law is spiritual...". So that means you wrong, at least if we hold scripture to be true. But I said it holds spiritual principles, it is sad you have no understanding of stewardship for that is ONE of the priniciples which tithing taught in the OT. So there again, great Ares, you are wrong a second time.

No one said anything about 'magical' or mystical or any other such non-sense. But your vast ignorance or obstanance in acceptance of the testimonies of countless hundreds of thousands if not millions who do tithe and Gods honoring of it stands in square refute to your claim of deriving : "...anything "magical" about the tithe apart from its specific instances in Biblical history". That makes three out of three. I would love to hear you refute and dispove those testimonies of those beloeved saints who placed their faith in Gods promise and watch God bless. But hey, you are free to stand where you want.

Tithing has zero to do with Christians or the church. It is not a command, obligation, suggestion, or spiritual threshhold of any kind whatsoever. Giving a tenth of one's net/gross/gross+benefits income to something is simply a matter of preference, equally such as any other amount or percentage.

Really? Can you show me where tithing was done away with. If you say it was under the law, then I must also bring the law to bear against you. For the law declares we shall not lie, lust, murder... these things are under the law. And if you say THOSE are spiritual laws. Then what of the laws like women are to be in silence in the Church AS SAYETH THE LAW. The Law set forth men in spiritual leadership role of priest and it maintains toward the bishop/Elder/Pastor. Jesus never spoke against the tithe but said ...these things (tithe) you aught to have done and NOT LEFT THE OTHER undone... Paul nor Peter never spoke against tithing There are many things OF the Law that we are still to uphold. I'm not saying we are to tithe to maintain the law.

But it IS OF NOTE, that the priests were partakers of the tithes and was the way God provided for them and was also used to provided for the temple maintance as well as provisions for the poor, fatherless, and widowed. And then Paul states when speaking of Pastors that they are to be taken care of from the things that are given to the church, and in other places that we (the church) are to care for the poor, fatherless, and widowed. Why did Paul think the OT view of tithing was a proper illistration (which supported the priests and community) to be used for the NT church. We don't tithe! We give when we feel moved.

All giving that is (1) done cheerfully and (2) meets needs is Biblical giving.

Yup.
Anytime you relinquish ownership of something (including tithing) you are giving. When you give you are to give (relinquish your ownership to another) it cheerfully back unto the Lord for it IS His(what is this - money desigated or holy unto God, that is awefully close to definition of the tithe). However, that aside... Tithing falls under 'Biblical Giving". We are not bound to the law anymore as believers but we must still abide by it, even beyond the basic 10 commandments.

Because the Holy Spirit leads? The real question should be "What can I give cheerfully and abundantly that will meet the target need that is neither insufficient nor irresponsible?"

No, that is not. It still makes you soveriegn and God your little helper. The real question is the FIRST HALF of your question: "What can I give cheerfully and abundantly?" My time? Money? Resourses?
I have yet to find someone give cheerfully and abundantly to a need irresponsibly. You can not give irresposibly if you are giving according to the leading of God or a need. It is only considered irresponsible to those who exhalt money to equal status with God. Regarding insuffient? I can not pay for a person to get a badly needed car because their only broke down. But if I give to the church and others do the same, THAT money cumulitivly can bless that person. There is NO SUCH THING as insuffient when it comes to the body, only those of little faith.

We give to the local church to meet its expenses. We should also give to other things and people where there is need. There is, however, no threshhold for any entity. The local church is not mandated to be a proxy through which all (or any particular amount) must be given.

And how do you tally up the expenses? Do you wait to see what the bill will be the seek to meet that need individually?

We do not give to the local church to meet its expesense. Show me THAT in scripture. We give to the local that it can meet needs of people as one body unified in Christ AND to support the ministries and mission which God has set forth in and for that Church.

Really. Please show me where it is something we should not do.